Does The Koran Teach "Kill The Infidels"

[Jeremy Mason]

Israel has a secular government democratically elected whos laws are based on english common law and jewish law , if you can understand a church applying certain rules then understand that if a country is run by religion the whole country is a church applying its rules

Ok... I'm going to say this one more time. The theocracy is not following it's rule book ie. the Koran. Go to the post #65 on p.7. Read it. Ask, " Is this being applied?" If not, then they are making up the rules as they go.

 

[Popeyesays]

Ok... I'm going to say this one more time. The theocracy is not following it's rule book ie. the Koran. Go to the post #65 on p.7. Read it. Ask, " Is this being applied?" If not, then they are making up the rules as they go.

It's not a theocracy. The influence of the Mullahin of Iran is far more theocratic than the royal house of Saud.
Regards,
Scott

 

[kai]

Ok... I'm going to say this one more time. The theocracy is not following it's rule book ie. the Koran. Go to the post #65 on p.7. Read it. Ask, " Is this being applied?" If not, then they are making up the rules as they go.

theocracies can do what they want, and the quran is not the only rule book theres the sunnah and Hadith and of course sharia and their interpretations there of. and of course arabian cultural aspects in life so its not quite as simple as you seem to think

 

[TashaN]

I'm reading the quotes you highlighted in blue, but I've yet to see the part where it says,"when the Arabs are in control over the world" then they will have compassion by the rulers of Islam. Can you show me where, in maro's post, where it says anything about Islam's tolerance towards non-Muslims when they are not in control of the world. I see the part where it says,"The tolerant attitude of Islam towards non-Muslims, whether they be those residing in their own countries or within the Muslim lands, can be clearly seen through a study of history" it also says, "not only does Islam demand their freedom to practice religion, but also that they be treated justly as any other fellow human. Warning against any abuse of non-Muslim in an Islamic society..." . You can read what the Prophet stated.

I still don't see the application of this "warning" in Islam's homeland.

Thanks for inviting me over to the discussion, Jeremy.

As a matter of fact, the Muslims around the world are striving to apply the original teachings of our beloved prophet, Mohammed "peace be upon him", but the problem is that, the world doesn't want for the Muslim nation to raise again. I don't blame others for what the muslims are going through these days because the muslims are responsible for it as well.

Regarding the application of the things maro has mentioned, it supposed to be applied in an islamic state, but what we can see today are either extreme regime, or a secular one. There is no pure muslim state today, as it was the case in the past.

I don't have a problem with muslims being divided in many countries, but at least, they should cooperate, and cooperating, being as one, is something which goes against the wishes of the great super power, america, because that might threaten it, the same with the european nations. I think sometimes, America, regret that she couldn't stop the european union to be formed. That's why you can notice that some muslim countries are alies for america, some with russia, some even with Israel. Yep, that's true. Sometimes power becomes a disease, not a cure to strive for perfection.

I don't see any christian nation around, maybe excpect the Vatican, so there is no reason to apply the bible anywhere, the same with most of so called muslim countries, the people are muslims, but the rulers just don't follow Islam, and here comes the disaster. Some extremism has formed in so many shaped because of the unfair treatment of these governments for it's people. The current so called islamic governments are no more representing Islam as america or the UK representing Christianity.

 

[TashaN]

They have their holy books confiscated, they have no place4 to perform the obligations of their religions, they often cannot access religious materials even on the internet.

They are not citizens and do not have the rights of citizens. International law requires certain human rights recognition and they don't do that.

Regards,
Scott

There is no non-muslim citizens in Saudi Arabia, and when they formed their country, they made it so clear that they want it to be a clear islamic state for muslims only because prophet Mohammed wanted that land to be so, not Saudi Arabia, but the arabian peninsula as a whole. Non-muslims can live and worship anywhere else in the muslims world, but not in the arabian peninsula. There are alot of non-muslims living overthere, and before they go there, they would go through some intro by the authorities about what is allowed in Saudi Arabia and what is not, and if the non-muslims don't accept these rules before going to saudi arabia, so they shouldn't go there in the first place, but when they do agree, then only they can go there, and if they broke the law, then they should held responsible for that, and they shouldn't whine about it because they knew that it wasn't allowed to be practiced there, period.

 

[Popeyesays]

There is no non-muslim citizens in Saudi Arabia, and when they formed their country, they made it so clear that they want it to be a clear islamic state for muslims only because prophet Mohammed wanted that land to be so, not Saudi Arabia, but the arabian peninsula as a whole. Non-muslims can live and worship anywhere else in the muslims world, but not in the arabian peninsula. There are alot of non-muslims living overthere, and before they go there, they would go through some intro by the authorities about what is allowed in Saudi Arabia and what is not, and if the non-muslims don't accept these rules before going to saudi arabia, so they shouldn't go there in the first place, but when they do agree, then only they can go there, and if they broke the law, then they should held responsible for that, and they shouldn't whine about it because they knew that it wasn't allowed to be practiced there, period.

Which is what I've been telling the other poster all along.

If the world wishes the Saudis to change, then the only way to do it is to apply pressure by not allowing the citizens of other countries to go to Saudi Arabia at all. The Saudi dependence upon foreign workers is a might club to use to ammend their behavior.

Regards,
Scott

 

[Sahar]

Non-muslims can live and worship anywhere else in the muslims world, but not in the arabian peninsula.

Abu Khalid, according to what I know non-Muslims can live in the Arabian Peninsula but no churches or any other places of worship should be built there.

 

[Sahar]

They are arrested if they promote other religions. Human rights as a whole are questionable at best. Look what happened to that girl who was raped. Are you familiar with what she went through? I've never been there have you?

Jeremy, under Islamic government no-one has the right to promote any other religion, only Islam but people following other religions have the right to practice their religions freely and build their places of worship freely.

The issue of the girl who was raped, is another topic, doesn't have any thing to do with "non-Muslims" rights. Saudi Arabia has its problems with justice, freedoms and human rights issues and many Arab secular governments have the same problems too.

 

[Jeremy Mason]

Thank you all for your input, it has convinced me that I'm glad to be a Christian and "true Christianity" never creates violence. Some who claim to be Christian sometimes do, but the New Testament tells us not to harm anyone, even when we are persecuted. I hope the Islamic states work for a peaceful existence, but something tell me that killing people for their beliefs is, in their views, inspired divinely. Mark my words, "this will probably create catastophic events for the the whole world as it has in the past. The problem w/ that is nobody wins. I hope the nice Muslims resist the bad Muslims, as I resist the bad Christians. It's not a prefect world, but we must strive to right the wrongs. If we don't, the outcome will be worst than it is already. Dreams - action = fantasy. Turning the other cheek is some of the greatest advised I've heard.

 

[fullyveiled muslimah]

What exactly happens to non-Muslims in Saudi Arabia?

I haven't the slightest idea of exactly what does or does not happen to non-muslims in Saudi Arabia. I would guess on a whim though, that whatever happens to them depending on the circumstances is probably not according to the very high standards set by Allah and His rasul. I can guess this because the rights of the muslims are not recognized accordingly, and if they do not apply correctly and protect the rights of the muslims, the non-muslims don't have anything coming. Some things are in place somewhat according to deen, but so much is wrong there. Islam dictates that non-muslims should definitely have the right to practice their own religion freely and uninterrupted. If they aren't seeing to that in countries that claim to be following Allah's law and the shariah, then they are sorely lacking in their duties.

 

[fullyveiled muslimah]

There is no non-muslim citizens in Saudi Arabia, and when they formed their country, they made it so clear that they want it to be a clear islamic state for muslims only because prophet Mohammed wanted that land to be so, not Saudi Arabia, but the arabian peninsula as a whole. Non-muslims can live and worship anywhere else in the muslims world, but not in the arabian peninsula. There are alot of non-muslims living overthere, and before they go there, they would go through some intro by the authorities about what is allowed in Saudi Arabia and what is not, and if the non-muslims don't accept these rules before going to saudi arabia, so they shouldn't go there in the first place, but when they do agree, then only they can go there, and if they broke the law, then they should held responsible for that, and they shouldn't whine about it because they knew that it wasn't allowed to be practiced there, period.

Interesting. I thought non-muslims were allowed to live in Saudi, just not to build their churches and so on in Makkah and Medina? Question, were non-muslims allowed to live in Saudi during the time of Rasulullah (saw)?

 

[Popeyesays]

I haven't the slightest idea of exactly what does or does not happen to non-muslims in Saudi Arabia. I would guess on a whim though, that whatever happens to them depending on the circumstances is probably not according to the very high standards set by Allah and His rasul. I can guess this because the rights of the muslims are not recognized accordingly, and if they do not apply correctly and protect the rights of the muslims, the non-muslims don't have anything coming. Some things are in place somewhat according to deen, but so much is wrong there. Islam dictates that non-muslims should definitely have the right to practice their own religion freely and uninterrupted. If they aren't seeing to that in countries that claim to be following Allah's law and the shariah, then they are sorely lacking in their duties.

The history of Arabia and the House of Saud in particular are very convoluted.

Non-Muslims live there in some number, but they are not citizens, they are resident aliens. As such they agree to certain conditions on their rights to worship as they see fit.

Fair? No.

Regards,
Scott

 

[maro]

What Are You Promised if you kill the infidels ?

Do you go to paradise if you don't carry out this command ?

The quran doesn't tell us to kill anyone unless they transgress first .

[60:8]Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just


the prophet (PBUH) says :He who hurts a Non-Muslim citizen of a Muslim state, I am his adversary, and I shall be his adversary on the Day of a Judgement." (Bukhari)

maros post is right the very first page tells us "The Arabs, to whom the Lord has given control over the world"

Islam came and destroyed the concept of hereditary rank. The Quran declares that people are created inherently equal and differ only based on their Taqwa (piety):

“Verily the most honored of you in the sight of Allah is he who is the most righteous of you.” (Quran, 49:13)​

The Prophet (صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّ&#1605 said further:

“Undoubtedly Allah has removed from you the pride of arrogance of the age of Jahiliyah (ignorance) and the glorification of ancestors. Now people are of two kinds. Either believers who are aware or transgressors who do wrong. You are all the children of Adam and Adam was made of clay… If they do not give this up (i.e. pride in ancestors) Allah will consider them lower than the lowly worm which pushes itself through Khara (dung).” [Abu Dawud and Tirmidhi]​

it's an arab religion

Islam is not a religion for arabs, it's a universal message to mankind

[21:107] (O Prophet?) 'We have not sent you except to be a mercy to all mankind:"​

 

[maro]

what about the islamic minorities in china ,Russia....? ,most probably no one heard about their suffering and eradication in the golden age of communism ,and nowadays.
have the christian minoriteis in the middle east ever witnessed anything like that ?
in fact ,in Egypt ,the secular government is biased against muslims , and not anyone else.
the muslims are the ones who can't practice their religion freely in a country where they constitute more than 95% of its population.if you want to do itekaf in the month of ramadan in one of the mosques, u will be put on the blacklist of the police and you might get caught at any time with no particular accusation.

the hijab is banned in tunisia, a country with an islamic majority. and in many important fields in other so called islamic countries.
a brutal war is waged against every islamic author ,activist and symbol inside and outside the so called islamic countries..

the muslims were being eradicated for 10 years in bosnia, and no one blinked for them , just like no one is blinking for people in ghazza right now....the rights of a dog is much more worthy in the eyes of the civilized west than those of a muslim human being ...

and after all this, we are the terrorists , we are the bad guys ,and it's our quran that should vanish for peace to prevail , right ?

sometimes i wonder , Are those people brain washed, or blind ,or dummy or just repeating the words of the zionist propaganda ,or what ?

one simple question, what the hell is wrong with the islamic minorities living with us ?

 

[Popeyesays]

"what about the islamic minorities in china ,Russia....? ,most probably no one heard about their suffering and eradication in the golden age of communism ,and nowadays.
have the christian minoriteis in the middle east ever witnessed anything like that ?"

What about jewish minorities? They were badly handled by the Soviets as well.
Not to mention the fate of eastern European Jews and Christians during the Nazi occupations.

The Thirty Years War was a pogrom of Christians against Christians for that matter.

Bosnia and Herzogovina were both preserved in the long run by the international community. The maltreatment of those in Gaza could be quickly fixed if Hamas were gone.

Regards,
Scott

 

[Jeremy Mason]

I haven't the slightest idea of exactly what does or does not happen to non-muslims in Saudi Arabia. I would guess on a whim though, that whatever happens to them depending on the circumstances is probably not according to the very high standards set by Allah and His rasul. I can guess this because the rights of the muslims are not recognized accordingly, and if they do not apply correctly and protect the rights of the muslims, the non-muslims don't have anything coming. Some things are in place somewhat according to deen, but so much is wrong there. Islam dictates that non-muslims should definitely have the right to practice their own religion freely and uninterrupted. If they aren't seeing to that in countries that claim to be following Allah's law and the shariah, then they are sorely lacking in their duties.

You are my friend, Talk is a sword. Talk can reconcile.

 

[Jeremy Mason]

On a lighter note, does the Koran like music? I'm sorry, I digress(sp?) . That will be my 1st question to the forum. Wish me luck.

 

[Popeyesays]

On a lighter note, does the Koran like music? I'm sorry, I digress(sp?) . That will be my 1st question to the forum. Wish me luck.

More extremist muslims do not approve of music. I think it's mostly based on hadith, nor Qur'an.

Regards,
Scott

 

[Jeremy Mason]

More extremist muslims do not approve of music. I think it's mostly based on hadith, nor Qur'an.

Regards,
Scott

I' ve taught many students drumming, skiing, cooking, stiainglass, golfing, chess, cribigde (sp?), believing.

 

[Jeremy Mason]

I don't know who said this, " For every discipline there is a multiple reward."