Does the Soul Exist?

[Unveiled Artist]

Soul is not a big word. It is a small word. The nature of the soul is a mystery no human mind can ever hope to unravel. However, the function of the soul is knowable.

The soul is defined and understood by anyone who can strip the metaphysics and mystery to observe more realistic definitions to which our soul is made up of.

What about the soul is a mystery? I can see how spirit would but soul?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I've been reading a bit about the brain and it seems that science is showing more and more that the physical brain is responsible for all thoughts, actions and processes. Even our personality is determined in parts of the physical brain. If the brain does everything, then what is the use of a soul? Since it has no function it is safe to say it does not exist. The brain stops working, you die. You don't miraculously enter an afterlife.
What is your opinion?

The brain is the foundation of our interpretation of stimuli of the outside world to our bodies. Its what forms what we call the mind. For example, the frontal lobe controls what we define as our personality (someone with traumatic brain injury and me with surgery and seizures in that area) and behavior.

The soul makes up our personality. Its the totality of our being; our nature. Its not a medical term; but, it exists insofar our brains still work, our minds and bodies communicatate, and we can experience the totality of our being.

@stvdv

Here is some info on our brain in relation to our personality and, thus, soul.

Soul: the essence or embodiment of a specified quality.

Frontal lobe and personality
Brain and personality
Spine injury journal

Our essense is the nature of a person

A soul is one word to define this nature (among other words)

A spirit is literally the energy that controls and makes up the function of all living without respect to personality and mind.

I know and live this by personal experience

 

[godnotgod]

Q: Who, or what, is it that knows there is or is no soul?

 

[stvdv]

The brain (which is inpart controls the mind) controls all we experience both mentally and physically for all living beings. Unless you are no a living being, what do you think controls who you are and experience both mind and body?

On that note, I dont understand this statement. An enlightened being, if one uses that term, is someone who is aligned with their mind, body, and soul together. Harmomic in body and mind. It isnt supernatural, unless you can explain an experience outside our body and mind to interpet it.

You missed my point. "the brain does not control everything". Just plain wrong statement. Keep it simple "My brain control my body". Leave the word everything out here [Suggests also trees, animals and what not]. I did not see trees with a brain yet. And still trees are growing, so they are obviously not controlled by your brain. This point is just language related, straightforward no tricky hidden meaning.

As I explained, an enlightened Master can grant you the experience [I met a saint who granted me the experience (as have many others); read the book of Yogananda] you are asking about. Of course you can search for yourself, but as the saints have declared, only very few people reach that state. So waiting/reading/thinking about it will probably never get you this experience.

The saints also declare that science is below the mind/intellect and spirituality is beyond the mind/intellect. So I can not "give" you the experience. I wish I could, but it is impossible. Pray to God to grant you the experience that is the smartest thing to do, or find an enlightened Master [but many are fake, but at least it is easy to see if a socalled Master is real or fake; the real Master can grant you the experience]

 

[Unveiled Artist]

You missed my point. "the brain does not control everything". Just plain wrong statement. Keep it simple "My brain control my body". Leave the word everything out here [Suggests also trees, animals and what not]. I did not see trees with a brain yet. And still trees are growing, so they are obviously not controlled by your brain. This point is just languag

The body function of trees helps it grow. The brain, the organ of every living beings experience, controls what the living being does and feels.

Our brain controls body (all living), mind (animals are argued to have a mind), and thoughts. More than just the living body.

Simce chairs dont have brains, I'll say the brain controls all living body, thoughts, and mind. Some living beings more than others.

As I explained, an enlightened Master can grant you the experience [I met a saint who granted me the experience (as have many others); read the book of Yogananda] you are asking about. Of course you can search for yourself, but as the saints have declared, only very few people reach that state. So waiting/reading/thinking about it

I dont see how that relates to what Im saying.

An enligtened being is just a person who is aligned in body, mind, and thought. How can it grant anything. These experiences we know for ourselves.

 

[stvdv]

The body function of trees helps it grow. The brain, the organ of every living beings experience, controls what the living being does and feels.
Our brain controls body (all living), mind (animals are argued to have a mind), and thoughts. More than just the living body.
Simce chairs dont have brains, I'll say the brain controls all living body, thoughts, and mind. Some living beings more than others.
I dont see how that relates to what Im saying.
An enligtened being is just a person who is aligned in body, mind, and thought. How can it grant anything. These experiences we know for ourselves.

I don't see how all you say relates to what I am saying also.
Seems to me we live in 2 different worlds. And that is okay.
Sometimes this happens. All persons are unique and go
their own path. And that seems okay to me.

Love, Peace and Blessings

 

[Mock Turtle]

When doing engineering I heard someone saying "Bootstrapping, interpreted as pulling yourself up on your own boots". Kind of impossible.

I have the same feeling with "understanding the mind using the mind". Kind of impossible IMO.

Many people quote all the time "Your mind can trick you so easy". But still they try to understand "mind by using mind".

I don't get it. I agree that the "mind can trick you very easy". So I do not try to understand the mind using the mind.

Not much else we have got though, is there, which is why I have spent more time investigating psychology and related subjects rather than investing that time with religions - more fruitful I think - well it works for me.

 

[stvdv]

Not much else we have got though, is there, which is why I have spent more time investigating psychology and related subjects rather than investing that time with religions - more fruitful I think - well it works for me.

Bottomline "If it works for you" than it must be good for you.
Understanding psychology helped me balancing my emotional imbalances a lot. I never studied religions in depth, I prefer [spiritual] contemplation. Like "who am I, why do I live ...?". That kind of questions "works for me"

Since Trackdayguy posted "if it works for me...", I use it a lot, and see many use it. Implies and generates respect towards different viewpoints. Maybe because you tell yourself "I feel good now, with what/how I do". It's a very positive line/affirmation.

Blessings

 

[George-ananda]

It depends upon what you believe. I haven't seen any unbiased evidence that this has ever occurred.

Well my impression from the many stories and videos I have heard and seen, it looks like just regular people giving an honest account of their amazing experiences.

As far as I'm concerned, the soul, as some thing apart from our personality and the sum total of our experiences, just doesn't exist.

And as far as I am concerned, I see us as interpenetrating physical and non-physical bodies that can separate upon trauma and death.

We are probably not going to agree at this time.

 

[George-ananda]

For me this is experienced reality

I think you are telling me that you had your own out of body experience that dovetails with what I was saying?

I was even more taken by your Avatar picture. Are those the divine lotus feet of Sri Satya Sai Baba. I am a HUGE, HUGE spiritual fan of Sai Baba and went to Puttaparthi, India to see him. I only saw him from afar in a wheelchair but experienced this wave of loving bliss while he was giving darshan.

 

[stvdv]

I think you are telling me that you had your own out of body experience that dovetails with what I was saying?

I was even more taken by your Avatar picture. Are those the divine lotus feet of Sri Satya Sai Baba. I am a HUGE, HUGE spiritual fan of Sai Baba and went to Puttaparthi, India to see him. I only saw him from afar in a wheelchair but experienced this wave of loving bliss while he was giving darshan.

Sai Ram brother,

Your "....Om Sai Ram" did give me a clue you might know about Sai Baba
Thanks for sharing. So you "know" out of your own experience what "loving bliss" is [hence your name I guess]. Happy to hear this. The proof of a real Master is that He can grant you this experience, so that we never have to doubt anymore. Whatever others claim, we know for a fact. Not everything, but I am already very grateful with a glimpse of divinity. And yes SB gave me this OOBE [dovetails, I learned another new word]

I am also a HUGE fan of Sai Baba. He is my everything in this world. The best that ever happened to me. And still He is alive for me. The spiritual world is so much bigger than this little world we live in.

Namastee

 

[godnotgod]

The brain (which is inpart controls the mind) controls all we experience both mentally and physically for all living beings. Unless you are no a living being.

Not true: during meditation, the 'mind' controls the brain, which begins to output large amounts of alpha waves. Ultimately, the mind ceases to function, whereupon it is seen (via pure conscious insight) that what we call 'mind' is just an illusion: a self-created principle. What remains is what has always been present: pure consciousness. 'I', which is created by the mind, also vanishes. On top of that, scientific studies now show that long-term meditators actually grow thicker cortexes. Consciousness grows the brain.

To say that there is an 'I' that thinks is like saying that there is a thing called a 'whirlpool' what whirls water. There is no such 'whirlpool' that is the agent of whirling water; there is only whirling water. Likewise there is no agent of thought called 'I'; there is only thought itself. 'I' is purely illusory.

When you suddenly, and without warning, burn your finger on the hot stove, is the brain controlling your experience? That's impossible, since the brain would have to have foreknowledge that it was about to burn your finger. The brain only responds to the stimuli, whereupon you recoil from the hot stove. In the split-second afterward, the mind says: "Oh! I burned my finger", as if it had something to do with the experience. This experience is totally uncontrolled. The real question here is: Who, or what, is it that is experiencing 'finger-burning'?

 

[Thermos aquaticus]

Not true: during meditation, the 'mind' controls the brain, which begins to output large amounts of alpha waves. Ultimately, the mind ceases to function, whereupon it is seen (via pure conscious insight) that what we call 'mind' is just an illusion: a self-created principle. What remains is what has always been present: pure consciousness. 'I', which is created by the mind, also vanishes. On top of that, scientific studies now show that long-term meditators actually grow thicker cortexes. Consciousness grows the brain.

How do you determine that there is something separate called the "mind" that is controlling the brain?

To say that there is an 'I' that thinks is like saying that there is a thing called a 'whirlpool' what whirls water. There is no such 'whirlpool' that is the agent of whirling water; there is only whirling water. Likewise there is no agent of thought called 'I'; there is only thought itself. 'I' is purely illusory.

When you suddenly, and without warning, burn your finger on the hot stove, is the brain controlling your experience? That's impossible, since the brain would have to have foreknowledge that it was about to burn your finger. The brain only responds to the stimuli, whereupon you recoil from the hot stove. In the split-second afterward, the mind says: "Oh! I burned my finger", as if it had something to do with the experience. This experience is totally uncontrolled. The real question here is: Who, or what, is it that is experiencing 'finger-burning'?

Reflexes are pretty easy to explain. They are hardwired reactions to strong stimuli. If enough pain neurons sense a lot of heat at one point in your body then neurons fire to retract the limb where that pain is being sensed. The famous knee reflex doesn't even go to the brain. In that case there are ganglia along your spinal cord that sense the tendon being stretched without muscle contraction so it fires your quadriceps muscles to prevent the tendon from being torn.

 

[Trailblazer]

The soul is defined and understood by anyone who can strip the metaphysics and mystery to observe more realistic definitions to which our soul is made up of.

What about the soul is a mystery? I can see how spirit would but soul?

The nature of the soul is a mystery.
The function is the soul can be known.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

The nature of the soul is a mystery.
The function is the soul can be known.

Both can be known. What would happen if it were known, would it cease being a soul?

 

[Trailblazer]

Both can be known. What would happen if it were known, would it cease being a soul?

Do you know the nature of the soul?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Do you know the nature of the soul?

Yes. I posted it but no one questioned me on it. I guys most of you are looking for metaphysical words for something that has no spiritual origin nor definition (to me, it does. But not to most)

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Do you know the nature of the soul?

I was serious about my question. It wasnt rethorical. If you knew the nature of the soul, would it cease to exist?

 

[Trailblazer]

I was serious about my question. It wasnt rethorical. If you knew the nature of the soul, would it cease to exist?

No, it would not cease to exist. It is a sign of God, so it cannot cease to exist.

 

[Trailblazer]

It depends upon what you believe. I haven't seen any unbiased evidence that this has ever occurred. As far as I'm concerned, the soul, as some thing apart from our personality and the sum total of our experiences, just doesn't exist.

The soul is not some thing apart from our personality and the sum total of our experiences.
The soul is our personality and the sum total of our experiences.