Does the universe need intelligence to order it?

[YmirGF]

"For those who stubbornly seek freedom around the world, there can be no more urgent task than to come to understand the mechanisms and practices of indoctrination. These are easy to perceive in the totalitarian societies, much less so in the propaganda system to which we are subjected and in which all too often we serve as unwilling or unwitting instruments."
Noam Chomsky

LOL. I thought that sounded liked the drivel Chomsky is somewhat famous for.

 

[godnotgod]

LOL. I thought that sounded liked the drivel Chomsky is somewhat famous for.

My, how uncannily perceptive of you. Must be your innate genius at work *cough*

Now, now. Jealousy is so unlike a Bodhisattva, especially when the drivel he's famous for is way over your head. Guess that's why he's Noam Chomsky and you're not...heh...heh..heh...

 

[shawn001]

Not true.

This is where you admit that you have a hypothesis which is not confirmed, about a situation which you cannot wrap your head around.



That picture can be interpreted as expansion happening. And I don't have a problem with that.

But the 'beginning' of that expansion is entirely hypothetical.
You are speculating beyond the data if you say it is proof of anything.

It is no more than a current best guess.



No problem with that.

Except maybe "space is going faster than light". That requires a kind of faith/imagination. Unless you have a definition of space which allows it to go.

maybe all the stuff is actually getting smaller ?

"That's not the sun going down ! It's the horizon moving up !"
- Firesign Theatre 'Everything you know is wrong'

"Except maybe "space is going faster than light". That requires a kind of faith/imagination. Unless you have a definition of space which allows it to go."

There is inflation theory here in this discussion, but we have observational evidence which has been confirmed that space is expanding faster then light right now.


Is the universe expanding faster than the speed of light?
I had a recent discussion with a professor about the early universe and rapid expansion. He affirmed that the expansion was not greater than the speed of light. Why is there such a misunderstanding about this?

Some of the misunderstandings surrounding this topic might come from confusion over what is meant by the universe "expanding faster than the speed of light." However, for the simplest interpretation of your question, the answer is that the universe does expand faster than the speed of light, and, perhaps more surprisingly, some of the galaxies we can see right now are currently moving away from us faster than the speed of light! As a consequence of their great speeds, these galaxies will likely not be visible to us forever; some of them are right now emitting their last bit of light that will ever be able to make it all the way across space and reach us (billions of years from now). After that, we will observe them to freeze and fade, never to be heard from again.

Curious About Astronomy: Is the universe expanding faster than the speed of light?

How could the universe expand faster than the speed of light? That seems impossible!

How could the universe expand faster than the speed of light? That seems impossible! » Scienceline

 

[shawn001]

You need to have a nervous system to be concious of anything. The universe would be here regardless of humans. The universe was here when there were no humans, that we know for a fact. Humans like to imagine though the universe was created specifically for us, probably because it gives people comfort.
.

 

[godnotgod]

You need to have a nervous system to be conscious of anything.
.

Who sez?

 

[shawn001]

Who sez?

The nervous system.

 

[shawn001]

Proof something without one is conscious.

Do you believe a rock is conscious?

 

[apophenia]

There is inflation theory here in this discussion, but we have observational evidence which has been confirmed that space is expanding faster then light right now.

Just to clear something up - I do get the stuff about faster than light expansion.

It's like matter is dots on the surface of a balloon, and the balloon is being inflated, so the dots separate.

I was being facetious. We don't have an emoticon for facetious, except maybe this ...

But that can appear to be an insult.

I was merely attempting to show how difficult it really is to get ones head around.

Space expanding ?

If that seems understandable, it probably hasn't been considered deeply ... that's all.

 

[shawn001]

Some people think the sun is conscious for example, its a nice thought but the sun is a nuclear furnace just burning hydrogen to helium and then to heavier elements.

You need conciousness to move and that is why it evolved in animals and different stages of the nervous system and brain structure, which has higher levels of conciousness. Its not unique to humans.

 

[psychoslice]

How I see it, the universe doesn't need anything, its intelligence itself, so everything that is part of the universe is also intelligence. Like the cells of our body that are being made and dying all the time, its all intelligence.

 

[shawn001]

Just to clear something up - I do get the stuff about faster than light expansion.

It's like matter is dots on the surface of a balloon, and the balloon is being inflated, so the dots separate.

I was being facetious. We don't have an emoticon for facetious, except maybe this ...

But that can appear to be an insult.

I was merely attempting to show how difficult it really is to get ones head around.

Space expanding ?

If that seems understandable, it probably hasn't been considered deeply ... that's all.

First we have know space has been expanding for a long time. If we lived in a static universe there would be many problems. But we know that is not the case now for a fact. Its easy to observe and measure now.

However Edwin Hubble proved it in 1924. Then we thought the whole universe was the Milkyway, but he found Andromeda and now billion of galaxies all expanding out ward.

I work will people from Sloan and they are mapping the universe.

The Expanding Universe

 

[shawn001]

Apophenia, I didn't think you insulted me just to know.

 

[shawn001]

How I see it, the universe doesn't need anything, its intelligence itself, so everything that is part of the universe is also intelligence. Like the cells of our body that are being made and dying all the time, its all intelligence.

As I said you need a nervous system. However, it is information but they are quite different. Then you get into QM and the world really gets weird, really weird, weirder then anything humans have ever seen. And it is a highly successful scientific theory.

Your basically talking about pantheism though and there could be problems with that as well. For example other universes.

 

[psychoslice]

As I said you need a nervous system. However, it is information but they are quite different. Then you get into QM and the world really gets weird, really weird, weirder then anything humans have ever seen. And it is a highly successful scientific theory.

Your basically talking about pantheism though and there could be problems with that as well. For example other universes.

I am only sharing what I know, it could be true or not, but when we start to get into things like QM, well we simply don't know much, and lets face it, who really knows the answer, not me that's for sure.

 

[shawn001]

I am only sharing what I know, it could be true or not, but when we start to get into things like QM, well we simply don't know much, and lets face it, who really knows the answer, not me that's for sure.

I don't view a rock as having consciousness, that is for sure personally.

I had just pulled this up and you should watch it, its pretty interesting. I think you and the Beatles will like it.

 

[psychoslice]

I think I've seen that video before, but I a, downloading it to watch anyway. I love the mystery of QM, but lets face it, we don't really know much about it. So I love to read about it and all the theory's, but at the end of the day, I and no one else can really say this is that for certain.

 

[shawn001]

I think I've seen that video before, but I a, downloading it to watch anyway. I love the mystery of QM, but lets face it, we don't really know much about it. So I love to read about it and all the theory's, but at the end of the day, I and no one else can really say this is that for certain.

iT pretty reasonable to say the planets orbit the sun.

Yes QM is fascinating and stranger then, well anything really. QM brought you your computer for example.


An informed list of the most profound scientific developments of the 20th century is likely to include general relativity, quantum mechanics, big bang cosmology, the unraveling of the genetic code, evolutionary biology, and perhaps a few other topics of the reader's choice. Among these, quantum mechanics is unique because of its profoundly radical quality. Quantum mechanics forced physicists to reshape their ideas of reality, to rethink the nature of things at the deepest level, and to revise their concepts of position and speed, as well as their notions of cause and effect.

Although quantum mechanics was created to describe an abstract atomic world far removed from daily experience, its impact on our daily lives could hardly be greater. The spectacular advances in chemistry, biology, and medicine—and in essentially every other science—could not have occurred without the tools that quantum mechanics made possible. Without quantum mechanics there would be no global economy to speak of, because the electronics revolution that brought us the computer age is a child of quantum mechanics. So is the photonics revolution that brought us the Information Age. The creation of quantum physics has transformed our world, bringing with it all the benefits—and the risks—of a scientific revolution.

A Brief History of Quantum Mechanics

 

[godnotgod]

The nervous system.

LOL, but how do you know that the nervous system isn't an outcome of consciousness?

 

[shawn001]

LOL, but how do you know that the nervous system isn't an outcome of consciousness?

On Earth evolutionary biology.

How do you know that any god would be conscious and why would it need to be if it knows everything already?

 

[godnotgod]

Some people think the sun is conscious for example, its a nice thought but the sun is a nuclear furnace just burning hydrogen to helium and then to heavier elements.

You need conciousness to move and that is why it evolved in animals and different stages of the nervous system and brain structure, which has higher levels of consciousness. Its not unique to humans.

OK, so you,as a human being, are conscious, but you say the Sun is not. What would it take for you to do what the Sun is doing as a totality, from the POV of being a human? IOW, what level of consciousness would you require to be a nuclear furnace burning hydrogen to helium etc.? According to you, it can be done without being conscious at all, or at least the Sun would require a massive brain to do so. And yet, the Sun does all of that without a brain or nervous system. In the larger sense, though, maybe it isn't the Sun doing it at all, but the Universe doing the Sun, just as the Universe is doing you and I; just as the wave is a total action of the ocean.