Robert.Evans
You will be assimilated; it is His Will.
I have to say, for all the discussion, which has been most helpful at times, I don't see how the universe orders without intelligence being behind it, and imbued within it. This means the many universes that might well exist, would he exactly the same, requiring intelligence. I still don't see an argument as to why anything orders itself without intelligence. Processes and mechanisms are not an answer, as we have to explain where they come from, and so the same problem occurs.
Whether you go back to the: Where does God come from? argument, or whether you go back to the: Where does naturalism come from? it still leaves you with the same question. The difference seems to be that one has intelligence and one doesn't. I ponder over why we would run from such an answer as intelligence. Perhaps if there was no such thing as believe in God it might be more readily accepted. Certainly if we accept that he exists, then it explains why people would argue the point. But to say he doesn't does not explain why people still believe in well educated countries... even scientists who know more than the average man.
It must surely be surprising, if we have come about through luck and processes, and now have some primordial believe which is actually wrong. If it were wrong, then how can we be sure of any of our beliefs? How can we be sure of our own judgement on anything.
Ultimately then it is luck. The person who says that eventually we shall see there is a natural explanation to it all holds that philosophical statement by faith (how ironic). It is the same faith that Dawkins has- for that is his position.
There are those on this forum who say 'I don't know' where everything comes from etc, but if we consider there is no intelligence at all, then we have -if I can call it this- energy, that just does stuff.... It changes into other things, which become more ordered as it goes along. If for example, we are the only life form that there is, then we are the most intelligent part of that energy. It even begs the question how it could even happen.
By necessity something must exist before this universe as nothing comes from nothing, and we have something. It is quite amusing to thing they look for a Theory of Everything, yet they think it comes from Nothing!
Perhaps it is our understanding of what that intelligence might look like that is at fault. We are primarily bound by our own understanding in a fleshly body. It is not then surprising that we would look from that position. Perhaps it is the reliance on science.
The answer that there are more universes all of which have their own laws that make their universe function, yet being different to ours, does not alter the fact that ours is still fine tuned for life. Even if we say that we tuned ourselves to it, and every possible point of the universe did just that, it alters little. The universe is still highly improbable. Perhaps the whole things got worse if all the other universes work also. Now we have the fine tuning of a multiverse to think of! Is that the many rolls of the dice? But even that is held by faith, still a philosophical position. We have to believe that difference will occur and that it will form into something. What are the forces that govern all this? What are the processes and where, -more importantly- where do they come from? What forms them? How is it all possible that many universes have such fine tuning that they all work? Are we not back to square one?
Whether you go back to the: Where does God come from? argument, or whether you go back to the: Where does naturalism come from? it still leaves you with the same question. The difference seems to be that one has intelligence and one doesn't. I ponder over why we would run from such an answer as intelligence. Perhaps if there was no such thing as believe in God it might be more readily accepted. Certainly if we accept that he exists, then it explains why people would argue the point. But to say he doesn't does not explain why people still believe in well educated countries... even scientists who know more than the average man.
It must surely be surprising, if we have come about through luck and processes, and now have some primordial believe which is actually wrong. If it were wrong, then how can we be sure of any of our beliefs? How can we be sure of our own judgement on anything.
Ultimately then it is luck. The person who says that eventually we shall see there is a natural explanation to it all holds that philosophical statement by faith (how ironic). It is the same faith that Dawkins has- for that is his position.
There are those on this forum who say 'I don't know' where everything comes from etc, but if we consider there is no intelligence at all, then we have -if I can call it this- energy, that just does stuff.... It changes into other things, which become more ordered as it goes along. If for example, we are the only life form that there is, then we are the most intelligent part of that energy. It even begs the question how it could even happen.
By necessity something must exist before this universe as nothing comes from nothing, and we have something. It is quite amusing to thing they look for a Theory of Everything, yet they think it comes from Nothing!
Perhaps it is our understanding of what that intelligence might look like that is at fault. We are primarily bound by our own understanding in a fleshly body. It is not then surprising that we would look from that position. Perhaps it is the reliance on science.
The answer that there are more universes all of which have their own laws that make their universe function, yet being different to ours, does not alter the fact that ours is still fine tuned for life. Even if we say that we tuned ourselves to it, and every possible point of the universe did just that, it alters little. The universe is still highly improbable. Perhaps the whole things got worse if all the other universes work also. Now we have the fine tuning of a multiverse to think of! Is that the many rolls of the dice? But even that is held by faith, still a philosophical position. We have to believe that difference will occur and that it will form into something. What are the forces that govern all this? What are the processes and where, -more importantly- where do they come from? What forms them? How is it all possible that many universes have such fine tuning that they all work? Are we not back to square one?
