Does the universe need intelligence to order it?

[savagewind]

Bible verses mean nothing to me. And I think that if one were to qualify for Enlightenment one would not be deceived away from it.

I person does not qualify for it. A person finds it. I believe godnotgod, it is present with everyone.

Though this is my conjecture. Mainly because if a person is to be persuaded away then it wasn't true enlightenment.

I somewhat agree. Though it is not the enlightment that wasn't true. (Perhaps true and enlightened mean the same thing). It is the person who wasn't true who is persuaded away from it.

 

[Midnight Rain]

I person does not qualify for it. A person finds it. I believe godnotgod, it is present with everyone.
I somewhat agree. Though it is not the enlightment that wasn't true. (Perhaps true and enlightened mean the same thing). It is the person who wasn't true who is persuaded away from it.

I can't really defend my opinion against your opinion but I guess we will have to simply disagree.

 

[Mohammad Nur Syamsu]

Bible verses mean nothing to me. And I think that if one were to qualify for Enlightenment one would not be deceived away from it. Though this is my conjecture. Mainly because if a person is to be persuaded away then it wasn't true enlightenment.

With subjectivity it is never settled what the emotion is that you have. You can express your emotions, attach words to it, but as expression can only occur with choosing, there is never a definite answer.

Which means enlightenment can re evaluate how you felt in the past, and how you will feel in the future.

I thought I was in love but it was all a sham. Evaluating the past in a new light.

 

[YmirGF]

I vote this post down. Now to find the button.

OK, fine. Why spoil the fun, eh?

 

[godnotgod]

I would not agree with that analogy. Simple as that.

OK. Let me put it to you this way:

The fish being in the sea but not knowing it is in the sea, is a metaphor for man being immersed in life, but not knowing what the nature of life is. This is known as metaphysical anxiety, in psychological terms.

Is that better?

Please refer to: Does the universe need intelligence to order it? | Page 79 | ReligiousForums.com

 

[Midnight Rain]

OK. Let me put it to you this way:

The fish being in the sea but not knowing it is in the sea, is a metaphor for man being immersed in life, but not knowing what the nature of life is. This is known as metaphysical anxiety, in psychological terms.

Is that better?

Please refer to: Does the universe need intelligence to order it? | Page 79 | ReligiousForums.com

I can understand that. Though I doubt we come to the same conclusion based on it.

 

[godnotgod]

I can understand that. Though I doubt we come to the same conclusion based on it.

Do you already have your mind made up?

 

[Midnight Rain]

Do you already have your mind made up?

I have seen your arguments already but for the sake of argument no I am not beyond having my mind changed. Have at it.

 

[YmirGF]

Okay I have to ask: Do you believe in God as the God described in the Bible, and the son of God Yahshuah as the saviour?

I could have missed it, but I didn't see a reply from Sri godnotgod on your important question. Then again, he may have slipped on a potato peel and hurt himself.

 

[Thief]

Not that it matters.....and apparently it doesn't....

We humans have intelligence....and make effort to place order into our world.
And there seems to be some resistance to that.

I wonder where that Comes From?

 

[godnotgod]

Okay I have to ask: Do you believe in God as the God described in the Bible, and the son of God Yahshuah as the saviour?

Oooh! A loaded question. Gets into another area entirely.
Short answer: It's the Long Way Home.
Longish answer: Yeshu was the real man of the East whose doctrines were overwritten by Rome and Paul with those of the pagan Mithra and others, which included blood sacrifice, for the express purpose of luring and converting the pagans into Paul's new religion. The serpent in the Garden was actually the godhead appearing as such in order to ensure the partaking of the 'Forbidden Fruit', which is a symbol for Higher Consciousness and Divine Union. No sin. No Devil. IOW, God was not setting up a Sting Operation; He was creating the conditions (a piece de resistance) to facilitate Divine Union, His unconditional gift to man.

 

[godnotgod]

More of your debating tactic to be annoying. All tricks, no content, all denial that freedom is real and relevant.

The spiritual experience of real freedom is the whole point of our existence. Many have it backwards, placing knowledge ahead of freedom. Freedom is a higher knowledge. It sees what the mind of knowledge cannot see.

 

[godnotgod]

I have seen your arguments already but for the sake of argument no I am not beyond having my mind changed. Have at it.

So what was your take on what I said about background vs. foreground, and how both men and fish view them?

 

[godnotgod]

Not that it matters.....and apparently it doesn't....

We humans have intelligence....and make effort to place order into our world.
And there seems to be some resistance to that.

I wonder where that Comes From?

Problem is, we try to force nature to conform to our concepts of reality in doing so. We can see all of the negative outcomes all around us. We are in the process of systematically killing ourselves under the guise of progress and order, and will go to our demise believing it.

 

[Midnight Rain]

So what was your take on what I said about background vs. foreground, and how both men and fish view them?

Other than the ocean view I don't recall seeing that.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

I wonder where that Comes From?

The Craving for Comfort I often think. Clutching at Metaphysical Straws.

It's great starting words with capital letters! Like it's more official.

 

[godnotgod]

Other than the ocean view I don't recall seeing that.

Does the universe need intelligence to order it? | Page 79 | ReligiousForums.com

The background to human existence can be thought of as the universe.

 

[Thief]

Problem is, we try to force nature to conform to our concepts of reality in doing so. We can see all of the negative outcomes all around us. We are in the process of systematically killing ourselves under the guise of progress and order, and will go to our demise believing it.

Might sound like a paradox.....but....
Short of granting the power of creation.....dominion would be the next best thing.

We have been given dominion.
Good thing.
Otherwise we would be scavaging like the rest of the animals.

Overdo the control?....yes we will.
Learn a lot as we do so?....yes we will.
Taste of knowledge and then die......yes of course.

But I never thought it should be otherwise.

 

[Thief]

The Craving for Comfort I often think. Clutching at Metaphysical Straws.

It's great starting words with capital letters! Like it's more official.

and it helps to point the Proper Direction.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

We have been given dominion.

So what does that mean? You believe God has given us stewardship of the planet or something?