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Does the universe need intelligence to order it?
- Thread starter Robert.Evans
- Start date
Thief
Rogue Theologian
Well, I thought it was obvious.....
'Go forth, be fruitful, multiply.........dominate all things.....
That pronouncement allegedly made by God.
And we humans have done so ever since.
One Higher intelligence turning loose another form.....just for laughs.
Why not?
I truly hope God has a sense of humor.
But I suppose you prefer to argue the discord of Man and blame that chaos to God?
Rick O'Shez
Irishman bouncing off walls
Personally I see no reason to believe that God even exists. Personally I find looking through a telescope at the Andromeda galaxy far more awe-inspiring than limited human notions of "God" or whatever.
Astronomically Awesome.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
Personally I see no reason to believe that God even exists. Personally I find looking through a telescope at the Andromeda galaxy far more awe-inspiring than limited human notions of "God" or whatever.
Astronomically Awesome.
ok...and science fascinates you?
and the singularity is part of your reality?
Rick O'Shez
Irishman bouncing off walls
The cosmologists are still trying to work out whether the big bang was the first, or just the latest in a sequence, or something else entirely. So much is still unknown, and I'm pretty sure that simplistic notions of "God" aren't going to help solve these questions.
It seems to me it would only ever be possible to prove something before the start by mathematical theory. And theory isn't real. Is it?
I agree.
Rick O'Shez
Irishman bouncing off walls
The way cosmology works is that the theoretical bods come up with mathematical models, then astronomers do observations and experiments to test whether they are valid. Trying to understand anything "before" the big bang is a major challenge but I think it will be worked out eventually.
My guess is that the truth will eventually prove to be unimaginably strange, and nothing whatsoever to do with our ideas about "God".
I understand the first part. But the second part "observation" isn't possible. Do you believe it's possible to "observe" something which isn't? My troll friend (it is over my right shoulfren - or maybe it's in my hands haha) says "be careful" but it was a long time ago so it might have been mish mashed in translation. Say what?
Thief
Rogue Theologian
and why let someone else make that choice for you?
Use your head.
Place the concept of the singularity before you....yes you can.
Now decide....Spirit first ?.....or substance?
Rick O'Shez
Irishman bouncing off walls
We still have no idea what the "is" and "isn't" might look like, but science progresses. For example the Hubble telescope has allowed us to see to the furthest reaches of the universe in a way that was previously thought impossible.
There are many big challenges ahead, one of them will be to discover what dark energy and dark matter look like.
Rick O'Shez
Irishman bouncing off walls
Because it's foolish to grasp at speculative notions just to find some comfort. That's why this whole thread is pointless, it's just a been succession of speculative and unsupportable ideas which have no real meaning, and no use except as a crude emotional crutch.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
Rick O'Shez
Irishman bouncing off walls
Exactly. And to be honest I get tired of people pretending they do know when it's patently clear that they don't. It's a house of cards.
Like I said before, beliefs are just beliefs, ten a penny, pretty worthless really. And the more people attach to them, the more their minds are closed and the less they actually see.
Robert.Evans
You will be assimilated; it is His Will.
There are many universes, many worlds, many realities. Scripture tells us this is certain places. It is a fractal process that evolves over time. Science will catch up eventually, and, without doubt, give us a far better explanation of something that mystics and the like have known for thousands of years, or at least, hundreds.
Robert.Evans
You will be assimilated; it is His Will.
You would have to think again on that one I think. Mystics and sages have known for thousands of years that the universe had a beginning. That is a pretty tall ask considering what they knew then. But you will use different words to explain things, and ignore other things which orchestrate it in the first place. You are free to that of course, the universe has complete autonomy... it has to.
Robert.Evans
You will be assimilated; it is His Will.
Ahh the thread is changing I feel...haha. Just because you don't know does not mean no one else does. One must not assume one knows because it is provable in some materialistic way.
Rick O'Shez
Irishman bouncing off walls
I'd love to know who these mysterious "mystics" actually were, but leaving that aside, yes, ancient peoples made some imaginative leaps and some good guesses about what the universe might look like, but that's all they really were - guesses.
On the other hand don't forget that people were once convinced that the earth was flat, and that the Church persecuted early astronomers for suggesting that the earth wasn't the centre of the universe. And so on and so on.
Robert.Evans
You will be assimilated; it is His Will.
It was not a guess.
Anyway, you are speaking I think of the Church which got a little ahead of itself.
Rick O'Shez
Irishman bouncing off walls
Most ancient cultures had a creation myth, that's not at all surprising when you think about it. Some were far more crude than others though, there's even one which says everything was created in a week, I mean how daft is that?!
And again the vague reference to "mystics" and "sages". It would be good if you started being a bit more specific about who these people actually were. How about some names and details, how about some references to back up these vague assertions?
Robert.Evans
You will be assimilated; it is His Will.
[QUOTE="Spiny Norman, post: 4096727, member: 48981"On the other hand don't forget that people were once convinced that the earth was flat, and that the Church persecuted early astronomers for suggesting that the earth wasn't the centre of the universe. And so on and so on.[/QUOTE]
If the Church had known that the divine-print works in a fractal way, they would have known that the sun was a representation of God in our realm. That said, it would not revolve round us, now would it!
And the land is flat, relative to us, is it not (minus the hills etc), just as the sun does rise in the sky, relative to us. Scripture in the past always was talking about a ''land'' not the earth. It can be seen that way though, but if you do that in simplistic terms, you will get misled somewhat, like believing in world wide floods for eaxample.
If the Church had known that the divine-print works in a fractal way, they would have known that the sun was a representation of God in our realm. That said, it would not revolve round us, now would it!
And the land is flat, relative to us, is it not (minus the hills etc), just as the sun does rise in the sky, relative to us. Scripture in the past always was talking about a ''land'' not the earth. It can be seen that way though, but if you do that in simplistic terms, you will get misled somewhat, like believing in world wide floods for eaxample.