Does theism lead to immoral behaviour?

[Kenny]

That's some of the sexist garbage found in the Bible. Men do not inherently have authority ovwr woman, and there is nothing wrong with a woman having authority over a man.
And checking a noise? That has nothing to do with authority. Check it with a baseball bat? That's just paranoid to jump straight to that.

I didn't say that a woman couldn't have authority over a man. If she is a CEO, she will have authority over many men. The issue was the relationship between a husband and a wife.

Again... it shows you haven't studied the bible.

It doesn't say men can't talk or ask questions, nor does it say they are to hang their heads in humility.

So, it must specifically say... children shouldn't ask their mother in church? Or was it talking about a specific issue because it did say "ask your husband at home".

I'm not a possession.

But you are valuable and irreplaceable.

It's still the bull**** that honor brings.
And all I see is you wanting to pretend I don't understand the Bible as you make excuses to defend it's less savory parts.

No... I guess you just don't like me calling out obvious points?

Nope. Just you making excuses for some of the indecency and inhumane aspects of the Bible.

No... just pointing out how you haven't really understood God's love for you as presented in the Bible and in view of my signature.

 

[Kenny]

The most Christlike approach to a break-in that I ever heard of was something that I read on a Quaker discussion board that I was on at the time:

The guy was awoken by a noise in the night. He went downstairs and found a burglar. Rather than attacking the burglar, he reassured him that he meant him no harm and started to talk with him, then put on a pot of coffee.

They talked about the burglar's life and choices until the morning, when the homeowner drove the burglar to a rehab facility as it opened for the day.

Apparently, the two of them still keep in touch.

That's beautiful... here is another account.

I think there are a lot of great stories like these:

92 Year-Old Grandma Rebuked Burglar By Using The Word of God | Christian Learning & News

The Word of God works for us no matter how young or old we are! 92-year-old Pauline Jacobi almost became the victim of a parking lot robbery. Thankfully, the presence…

godtv.com

 

[Kenny]

Examples?

Empathy and reciprocity are evolutionary behaviors. We see it in birds and mammals but especially in primates and in social species more than in solitary ones.

Counter Protesters Force Westboro Baptist Church Members to Flee Moore, Okla.

Members of Westboro Baptist Church from Topeka, Kan , staged several protests in Oklahoma and Texas over the weekend where they faced counter protesters, including a group of 2,000 who rallied

www.christianpost.com

There are many...

Ok.. you see it as evolutionary - I see conscience as God hardwired. We certainly don't have scientific evidence of how it "evolved"... all we have is that it exists.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Counter Protesters Force Westboro Baptist Church Members to Flee Moore, Okla.

Members of Westboro Baptist Church from Topeka, Kan , staged several protests in Oklahoma and Texas over the weekend where they faced counter protesters, including a group of 2,000 who rallied

www.christianpost.com

There are many...

Ok.. you see it as evolutionary - I see conscience as God hardwired. We certainly don't have scientific evidence of how it "evolved"... all we have is that it exists.

Yeah and I see your God as yours and not mine. But you don't really see it, unless you accept that I can see that you are wrong. I mean I can really see it. You even look funny.
You confuse how you think/feel with seeing as seeing and not subjectively understanding. That is your trick and I don't see that. I understand that.

 

[Augustus]

It seems to me a distinction without a difference.

I assume you would say there is a difference between atheism and an atheistic ideology, why not distinguish between theism and a theistic ideology too?

Neither theism or atheism do anything on their own, although they can both form one part of a broader ideology.

What justifies the behaviour is the broader ideology, and moral or immoral behaviour can result from all kinds of ideologies: theistic or atheistic; dogmatic or adaptive; rational or irrational, etc.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Again... it shows you haven't studied the bible.

Just keep telling yourself that. It's false, but it's your fantasy.

The issue was the relationship between a husband and a wife.

Even there the man is not inherently above the woman.

So, it must specifically say... children shouldn't ask their mother in church? Or was it talking about a specific issue because it did say "ask your husband at home".

Yes. Because according to Paul women and nit men are required to shut up and be seen but not heard.

But you are valuable and irreplaceable.

And possessions are frequently replaceable.
It's strange, ti say the least, that yiu inserted me, a human being, into an exchange regrading possessions.
Women are not possessions.

No... I guess you just don't like me calling out obvious points?

I'm calling out that it doesn't take much yo see this honor thing causes more problems and grief than it's worth.

No... just pointing out how you haven't really understood God's love for you as presented in the Bible and in view of my signature.

Per the Bible your god does not love me and amd will never forgive me of all sins. He sees me as an abomination, he prophets speak ill of me.
But as I said. It's your fantasy and doesn't chnage the fact I gave many years of my life to Bibke study and serving Jehovah, that I was highly regarded by my peers and Church leadership amd was being brought up to join the ranks of clergy.

 

[Kenny]

Even there the man is not inherently above the woman.

Again... you are showing that you don't even understand the issues or how strong, important, capable and valuable women are. Your position sounds more fear based than anything else.

My wife preaches, teaches and has authority over men

 

[Heyo]

Counter Protesters Force Westboro Baptist Church Members to Flee Moore, Okla.

Members of Westboro Baptist Church from Topeka, Kan , staged several protests in Oklahoma and Texas over the weekend where they faced counter protesters, including a group of 2,000 who rallied

www.christianpost.com

There are many...

You call that article "challenging"? It's a neutral report of some people (mostly of unknown denomination, if any) and only atheists stated specifically to have protested.

Ok.. you see it as evolutionary - I see conscience as God hardwired. We certainly don't have scientific evidence of how it "evolved"... all we have is that it exists.

Evolution of morality - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Look in the "References" section for papers on the evolution of morality.

 

[syo]

Modern abrahamics lead to immoral behaviour.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

That's some of the sexist garbage found in the Bible. Men do not inherently have authority ovwr woman, and there is nothing wrong with a woman having authority over a man.
And checking a noise? That has nothing to do with authority. Check it with a baseball bat? That's just paranoid to jump straight to that.

I used to get a lot of opposition and constant criticism from other evangelicals (mainly men, but some women as well) while I was still one myself. I led an evangelistic ministry team and did a lot of street preaching when I was still an evangelical Christian. I was informed several times that my street preaching was against God's word and that I wasn't allowed to have spiritual authority over men because I am a woman. In fact, I was told that since I am a woman, any Christian man, not only my husband, has spiritual authority over me. The following passage from the Bible is what these badgering Christians would constantly use to shame and chastise me. Some evangelicals and other Christians supported me, but these others would accuse me of disobeying God.

1 Timothy 2:11–15: "A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. But women will be saved through childbearing if they continue in faith, love, and holiness with propriety.

 

[Kenny]

You call that article "challenging"? It's a neutral report of some people (mostly of unknown denomination, if any) and only atheists stated specifically to have protested.

Is there something in particular you are interested in? If you look at any renown preacher on youtube, you can find Christians criticizing them.

Look in the "References" section for papers on the evolution of morality.

I didn't say "morality", I said "conscience."

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I used to get a lot of opposition and constant criticism from other evangelicals (mainly men, but some women as well) while I was still one myself. I led an evangelistic ministry team and did a lot of street preaching when I was still an evangelical Christian. I was informed several times that my street preaching was against God's word and that I wasn't allowed to have spiritual authority over men because I am a woman. In fact, I was told that since I am a woman, any Christian man, not only my husband, has spiritual authority over me. The following passage from the Bible is what these badgering Christians would constantly use to shame and chastise me. Some evangelicals and other Christians supported me, but these others would accuse me of disobeying God.

1 Timothy 2:11–15: "A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. But women will be saved through childbearing if they continue in faith, love, and holiness with propriety.

It's stuff like that that partly made being trans a great struggle. According to them you might as well consider and count being a woman as a curse from god. Of course their wrap their turds with a film of gold, but just read Bible. Women are filthy sinners who can shut it the **** up amd do what she's told because she damned us all.

 

[1213]

Takes for proving my point.
It calls for homophobia. Which is immoral.

Maybe you have different definition for phobia. I don't think it leads to fear of anything. But, why would fearing be immoral? Especially in today's world, it seem legitimate when it appears that homosexuals have also strong tendency to fascism and totalitarianism and other unrighteous things.

However, I think there is no reason to fear anything.

 

[1213]

Resurrections of the dead, physically impossible floods, physically impossible celestial events, magical plagues, magical splitting of seas, the magical appearance of food from the sky, turning water into wine, making the blind see through what-I-can-only-call magic spells, talking burning bushes,......

I don't see any reason to think those needs magic. Only thing needed is right understanding.

 

[1213]

Take that up with all the Christians who celebrate the Eucharist.

Why would anyone think that is ritual cannibalism?

If I would have a lamb and I would prepare it for people to eat. It could be said, it is my meat that I offer to everyone to eat. Would it be cannibalism? Are all barbequees cannibals, if they offer their meat for others to eat? By your logic it is apparently so.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Why would anyone think that is ritual cannibalism?

If I would have a lamb and I would prepare it for people to eat. It could be said, it is my meat that I offer to everyone to eat. Would it be cannibalism? Are all barbequees cannibals, if they offer their meat for others to eat? By your logic it is apparently so.

Catholic doctrine is that the Eucharistic bread is literally the body of Christ, even though it retains the appearance of bread.

 

[Ella S.]

It seems to me a distinction without a difference.

Then behaviors resulting from atheistic philosophies should be consequences of atheism to you, too.

Very intriguing the level of special pleading from self-proclaimed critical thinkers in this thread. Incredibly disappointing displays of bias. I overestimated the thinkers on this forum.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Then behaviors resulting from atheistic philosophies should be consequences of atheism to you, too.

Again:

Every actual example of theism is a belief in a specific god, including beliefs about what that god has done, commanded, promised, etc.

Atheism in and of itself is not an action or a belief. While people can hold beliefs or take actions that are consistent with atheism, these beliefs and actions are not atheism themselves, or even consequences of atheism.

Just as we don't call things a theist does that are unrelated to their god-belief "consequences of theism," we don't call things that an atheist does that are unrelated to their atheism "consequences of atheism."

Very intriguing the level of special pleading from self-proclaimed critical thinkers in this thread. Incredibly disappointing displays of bias. I overestimated the thinkers on this forum.

Ironic.

The approach you're complaining about is consistent. The special pleading is all coming from you.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Again:

Every actual example of theism is a belief in a specific god, including beliefs about what that god has done, commanded, promised, etc.

Atheism in and of itself is not an action or a belief. While people can hold beliefs or take actions that are consistent with atheism, these beliefs and actions are not atheism themselves, or even consequences of atheism.
...

The beauty of the Internet is that if you know how to search, seek and you shall find:
"...

Definitions​

Atheism is the comprehensive world view of persons who are free from theism and have freed themselves of supernatural beliefs altogether. It is predicated on ancient Greek Materialism.

Atheism involves the mental attitude that unreservedly accepts the supremacy of reason and aims at establishing a life-style and ethical outlook verifiable by experience and the scientific method, independent of all arbitrary assumptions of authority and creeds.

Materialism declares that the cosmos is devoid of immanent conscious purpose; that it is governed by its own inherent, immutable, and impersonal laws; that there is no supernatural interference in human life; that humankind, finding the resources within themselves, can and must create their own destiny. It teaches that we must prize our life on earth and strive always to improve it. It holds that human beings are capable of creating a social system based on reason and justice. Materialism’s ‘faith’ is in humankind and their ability to transform the world culture by their own efforts. This is a commitment that is, in its very essence, life-asserting. It considers the struggle for progress as a moral obligation that is impossible without noble ideas that inspire us to bold, creative works. Materialism holds that our potential for good and more fulfilling cultural development is, for all practical purposes, unlimited."

Our Vision

We envision a world in which policies are made using the best evidence we have rather than using religious dogma.

www.atheists.org

 

[SkepticThinker]

Maybe you have different definition for phobia. I don't think it leads to fear of anything.

phobia​

: an exaggerated usually inexplicable and illogical fear of a particular object, class of objects, or situation

Definition of PHOBIA

an exaggerated usually inexplicable and illogical fear of a particular object, class of objects, or situation… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

But, why would fearing be immoral? Especially in today's world, it seem legitimate when it appears that homosexuals have also strong tendency to fascism and totalitarianism and other unrighteous things.

Huh?

However, I think there is no reason to fear anything.

Except what you said just above this??

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