Does theism lead to immoral behaviour?

[muhammad_isa]

So which one would you hold up as a blueprint example that world should follow?

The Qur'an is the blueprint..
You may rejoice in the fact that the ideology of the West is practically spread all over the world..
..but it will be a very brief "victory".

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

The Qur'an is the blueprint..
You may rejoice in the fact that the ideology of the West is practically spread all over the world..
..but it will be a very brief "victory".

Ha, so there is no real land / country out there that has succesfully used the quran as a blueprint - eventhough plenty of countries claim to be islamic theocracies (and average-Joe's life isn't really nice there, btw....)?

In fact, every current attempt in any nation in the world to implement Islamic Law, is just a colossal failure in terms of how it made the society perform in terms of societal health?

Well, that certainly sounds "promising" for when they finally get it "right" then.
Sounds like paradise.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Ha, so there is no real land / country out there that has succesfully used the quran as a blueprint

Of course there is .. but not in this era.
The world is heading for an apocalypse.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Of course there is .. but not in this era.
The world is heading for an apocalypse.

People have been saying that for thousands of years.

They have always been wrong.

Just like you're wrong.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Of course there is .. but not in this era.

Then there isn't.

The world is heading for an apocalypse.

Isn't it always.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Then there isn't..

If most people have been seduced by evil in the world, then that is the result.
What do you think .. that people should be forced to follow religion against their will?
I don't think so.

..but I can understand why some authoritarian countries might attempt that..
..frustration.

 

[ChristineM]

What do you think .. that people should be forced to follow religion against their will?
I don't think so.

I'm pretty sure you have been espousing just the opposite throughout this thread, what's changed?

 

[Audie]

The claim being discussed here comes from theists claiming that such societies WOULD have less crime or higher morality.
But what we see is the opposite correlation being true.

I don't know if it is a causal link or not and it doesn't matter.
The claim is that there should be a causal link and that the result would be less crime / higher morals.
But we see the opposite. Therefor = claim is false.

Religions routinely coerce people into
belief in false and very harmful ideas.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

If most people have been seduced by evil in the world, then that is the result.

Why is it less the result in countries where there is less religion?

What do you think .. that people should be forced to follow religion against their will?
I don't think so.

Tell me, in a country that implements "Islamic Law", are people there free to follow whatever religion they like? Are they also free to quit following whatever religion they happen to follow? Without any consequences whatsoever?

..but I can understand why some authoritarian countries might attempt that..
..frustration.

Theocracies are inherently authoritarian.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Why is it less the result in countries where there is less religion?

I have already discussed that. One has to consider economics.

Tell me, in a country that implements "Islamic Law", are people there free to follow whatever religion they like?

The Qur'an expicitly says that there should be no force in religion.

Are they also free to quit following whatever religion they happen to follow? Without any consequences whatsoever?

That depends..
Treason is punishable by law.
..much like when people become spies in the West, and default to the East or what have you.

 

[ChristineM]

Treason is punishable by law.

Leaving a religion is not treason

 

[muhammad_isa]

Leaving a religion is not treason

I never said it was .. but it might be .. particularly in war.

 

[ChristineM]

I never said it was .. but it might be .. particularly in war.

Your answer implied that it was.

@TagliatelliMonster wrote "Are they also free to quit following whatever religion they happen to follow? Without any consequences whatsoever?"


Your reply to that question (and you quoted it) "That depends. Treason is punishable by law."

So either you did say it was or it was a total straw man designed to deflect.

 

[ChristineM]

..and that is why there is so much trouble in the world.
..because the world is dominated by the West politically since the WW's.
The squabbling will never end until..

So not needing twice as much evidence from a woman than a man in the west is the cause of so much trouble in the world?

Go figure

 

[SkepticThinker]

I never said it was .. but it might be .. particularly in war.

You kind of did.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Your answer implied that it was.

Oh .. come on..

"..much like when people become spies in the West, and default to the East or what have you."

 

[muhammad_isa]

So not needing twice as much evidence from a woman than a man in the west is the cause of so much trouble in the world?

No not that .. the fact that the West is dominating the world, and is not happy until Muslims have the same moral values and religion [or none] as them.

 

[Heyo]

Oh .. come on..

"..much like when people become spies in the West, and default to the East or what have you."

That is either what we all read, i.e. comparing leaving a religion with treason and alluding to a rightful harsh punishment - or, if you insist it isn't, you avoided to answer the question. So, again,

Tell me, in a country that implements "Islamic Law", are people there free to follow whatever religion they like? Are they also free to quit following whatever religion they happen to follow? Without any consequences whatsoever?

Do you refuse to answer?

 

[SkepticThinker]

Oh .. come on..

"..much like when people become spies in the West, and default to the East or what have you."

That's the impression I got as well. So, that's two of us.

 

[muhammad_isa]

That is either what we all read, i.e. comparing leaving a religion with treason and alluding to a rightful harsh punishment - or, if you insist it isn't, you avoided to answer the question. So, again,

Rubbish!
I said "I never said it was .. but it might be .. particularly in war."
..so "leaving Islam" MIGHT be treason .. defection in a war is a good example.