Does theism lead to immoral behaviour?

[Sgt. Pepper]

Well, Christianity did teach me to hate myself amd other queers and to be an insufferable jerk around others.

The common justification I've heard from Christians for their bad behavior toward others has been "hate the sin, love the sinner." However, based on their actions, this is obviously not true. And of course, the No True Scotsman fallacy has often been used to dismiss the bad behavior of some Christians.

I'm not sure if theism in general works though, especially with things like Deism that lack the dogma and "divine" instruction.

I agree with that.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The common justification I've heard from Christians for their bad behavior toward others has been "hate the sin, love the sinner." However, based on their actions, this is obviously not true. And of course, the No True Scotsman fallacy has often been used to dismiss the bad behavior of some Christians.



I agree with that.

"Love the sinner, hate the sin" is still bigotry. When a loved one becomes addicted to drugs you still love but resent the illness. Which makes sense because that is a situation that is taxing, trying, and challenging for all involved.
Homosexuality? Get the hell out because they're aren't harming anyone and there is no real or valid reason at all to hate them or their being gay unless you have an ancient book of suoerstitions telling you it's an abominable perversion.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

By number of adherents, Christianity and Islam just by themselves are about two thirds of "theism in general."

The impact of Deism on "theism in general" is less than that of some of the smaller Christian denominations.

Christianity and Islam may be the two most common, bu so different from so many ituer religions t that hasn't stopped those of other religions from criticizing those two as having a very poor theology.

 

[Heyo]

Ah - I think you're reading the question differently than I am.

I'm taking "theism" as the social phenomenon in general; each individual theist is one component of theism overall.

OTOH, sounds like you're taking "theism" as the state of a hypothetical specific person.

Both perspectives are probably valid. I probably should have made the OP question more precise to get rid of ambiguity, but I was going for a cutesy callback to the other thread.

This is less the problem for the misunderstanding.

The way I understand the question, if the answer to "has theism ever led to immoral behaviour?" is "yes," then the answer to "does theism lead to immoral behaviour?" has to be "yes, at least some of the time."

It is this formulation. (Not your fault as you just copied it.) The formulation of the question is right in the middle of the alternatives we both brought up. It is less strong than "must" but also not as weak as "can".
I completely understand your position as it is comparable to answering "yes" to "do you have 5 dollar in your pocket?" - when you have $5 or more in your pocket.
My position is that "lead to" implies a causal link like if A then B which isn't there if an example of A is true and B is false can be found.

 

[We Never Know]

Well, Christianity did teach me to hate myself amd other queers and to be an insufferable jerk around others.
I'm not sure if theism in general works though, especially with things like Deism that lack the dogma and "divine" instruction.

I disagree with that. Hypocrites taught you that.

 

[Heyo]

I'm not sure if theism in general works though, especially with things like Deism that lack the dogma and "divine" instruction.

Deism does fall more in the category of atheism than in theism.
Theists believe in an intervening god. That is the point of critique for most atheists.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

If it's immoral to make things up and state them
as fact, creationism has a morality problem.

The question is then, if it is a fact that it is immoral to make things up and state them
as fact? Is the bold a fact?

 

[Augustus]

Belief in god can certainly underpin immoral behaviour as part of a broader ideology (as can disbelief in god). We often feel a need to justify our actions and god based beliefs certainly are one possible justification:

Even a cursory glance at history should convince one that individual crimes committed for selfish motives play a quite insignificant part in the human tragedy, compared to the numbers massacred in unselfish loyalty to one’s tribe, nation, dynasty, church, or political ideology, ad majorem gloriam dei... homicide committed for selfish motives is a statistical rarity in all cultures. Homicide for unselfish motives is the dominant phenomenon of man's history. His tragedy is not an excess of aggression but an excess of devotion... it's loyalty and devotion which makes the fanatic." - Arthur Koestler


Belief or disbelief in god do nothing on their own, but we don’t hold any beliefs in isolation anyway, they are always connected to some other perspectives.

Whether gods exist or don’t exist in our worldview can certainly be consequential though.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Deism does fall more in the category of atheism than in theism.

Thomas Paine would disagree. He was a Deist, and he complained Christianity is good at making fanatics and atheists who don't believe the Almighty is real (Age of Reason).
That sounds pretty theistic to me.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I disagree with that. Hypocrites taught you that.

It was Christians.
Unless you want to join ranks with pinheads and bozos who want to insist I wasn't actually a Christian and didn't belong to a "real" Church.

 

[Heyo]

Thomas Paine would disagree. He was a Deist, and he complained Christianity is good at making fanatics and atheists who don't believe the Almighty is real (Age of Reason).
That sounds pretty theistic to me.

Why? Where does he say or imply that "the Almighty" does interfere with human affairs? (Which would make him a theist and forced to return his deist card.)
What he is doing is critiquing Christianity (and by extension, theism), just like atheists do - and probably for the same or similar reasons.

 

[Augustus]

Why? Where does he say or imply that "the Almighty" does interfere with human affairs? (Which would make him a theist and forced to return his deist card.)
What he is doing is critiquing Christianity (and by extension, theism), just like atheists do - and probably for the same or similar reasons.

Enlightenment era deists were a bit different to modern deists as they tended to believe in Providence.

So while god wasn’t interventionist, there was a “goodness” that underpinned the world and would result in human flourishing if they followed the divine plan (which luckily just so happened to be Western liberalism).

 

[Heyo]

Enlightenment era deists were a bit different to modern deists as they tended to believe in Providence.

So while god wasn’t interventionist, there was a “goodness” that underpinned the world and would result in human flourishing if they followed the divine plan (which luckily just so happened to be Western liberalism).

:informative:

 

[muhammad_isa]

Atheism is more moral..

Absurd .. atheism is a lack of belief .. morality does not come in to it.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Depending what the theist believes about God..

Of course..
People believe all sorts of things .. including nothing.

 

[Kenny]

Inspired by this thread:

Does Atheism Lead to Immoral Behavior?

I'd suppose this depends on what you view as moral behavior but I thought I'd ask the question to see what people would say. It is easy to justify one's personal morals but I'd like you to consider the world at large. Is the world becoming more moral or less moral? And, does this have anything...

www.religiousforums.com

Sauce for the goose and all that.

My personal take: yes, theism often - though not always - leads to immoral behaviour.

I would say that both are wrong. Neither theism or atheism leads to immoral behavior. It is the spiritual state of man and/or the failure to renew one's mind (from stinking-thinking to God-thinking) - that leads to immoral behavior.

We are all in the same boat.

In light of my signature, it is Jesus and the word of God that moves us from immoral to degrees of moral behavior.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Absurd .. atheism is a lack of belief .. morality does not come in to it.

It should be noted that your statement is your opinion based on your religious beliefs, which are clearly contradictory the following articles.

Psychology Today - Atheism, Morality, and Society

The Atlantic - Atheists Are Sometimes More Religious Than Christians

HuffPost Science - So Much For Religious People Being More Righteous

Live Science - Atheists More Motivated by Compassion than the Faithful

Phys.org - Atheists and believers both have moral compasses, but with key differences

The following articles substantiate the study discussed in the Phys.org article.

Live Science - Atheists and believers have different moral compasses

Real Clear Science - How Atheists and Believers Differ in Their Morality

Daily Mail.com Science & Tech - Atheists do have a moral compass similar to religious individuals

ZME Science - Atheists are just as ethical as believers, study shows — they just prioritize different things

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

I would say that both are wrong. Neither theism or atheism leads to immoral behavior. It is the spiritual state of man and/or the failure to renew one's mind (from stinking-thinking to God-thinking) - that leads to immoral behavior.

We are all in the same boat.

In light of my signature, it is Jesus and the word of God that moves us from immoral to degrees of moral behavior.

"In light of my signature, it is Jesus and the word of God that moves us from immoral to degrees of moral behavior."

Your statement is in light of your personal opinion and Christian beliefs, which are clearly not shared by everyone in this thread.

 

[Kenny]

"In light of my signature, it is Jesus and the word of God that moves us from immoral to degrees of moral behavior."

Your statement is in light of your personal opinion and Christian beliefs, which are clearly not shared by everyone in this thread.

Never said it was and thus, "In light of my signature" which states that other religions have different viewpoints. It makes sense to me.

 

[muhammad_isa]

It should be noted that your statement is your opinion based on your religious beliefs, which are clearly contradictory the following articles...

No .. it is NOT my opinion .. no amount of refs. will change that fact.

ATHEISM IS A LACK OF BELIEF