Does your spiritual God interact with the physical world?

[Hermit Philosopher]

I'm sorry. Where in my refutation of your sixth sense did I mention anything about evolution? Are you sure you're responding to the right post?

I thought I was sure...
did I respond to wrong post?

 

[Beaudreaux]

I thought I was sure...
did I respond to wrong post?

I don't know. Your quote was this post of mine.

Ah, the sixth sense. I suppose it is possible that some people have a sense that the rest of us don't and that sense allows them to perceive God. Much like the claim of God itself, I have no evidence for such a sense and some problems with the implications of the existence of such a sense.

First of all, if such a sense exists, it has almost no characteristics in common with what we now know a sense to be. Not all normal, healthy people have it. There seems to be no anatomical mechanism for it. It is often described to be sporadic and unreliable unlike our other, always-on senses.

Secondly, what does the existence of such a sense tell us about God? Remember, if God affects the physical world then we are well within our rights to try to derive characteristics of him from his behavior. Apparently, God only gives this sense to a select few, or maybe to a great many people, but it is clear he does not give it to everyone. From this we can derive that God does not want us all to perceive him.

We can also derive that God has no problem revealing himself to our senses since he reveals himself to this one. Why does he not make himself visible or audible? And again, why not to all?

I stand behind it, BTW.

 

[NeoSeeker]

I have to say I'm a little surprised that many monotheists, Christians in particular, have avoided responding to this thread. We have threads going on right now where such people claim that, not only does God interact with the physical world, but that He performs miracles, yet something about this question seems to be off-putting. Maybe they think it's a trap. I dunno.

From physical standpoint, as you said there are those who claim God interacts with the physical word, healing people. One step further, there are true believers who feel that God takes care of his/her believers.

Regarding miraculous healing, I know an individual who was pronounced dead at his home, revived on his own at the hospital, went through all sorts of physical trials, but is alive today. He claims this is due to divine intervention. I'd say something mysterious happened, but don't feel like it was a supreme diety at work. All the people in his church are convinced for whatever reason, God saw fit to save him. Can I refute that? No not really, but I remain unconvinced. Another explanation which some people might call "God", If you put one hundred people together and they all wished for the same thing, is anyone prepared to say there could be no effect in the physical world? How about when 1000 human brains wish for the same thing? Don't know.

As far as believers feeling that God takes care of them, there are way too many cases of bad things happening to good people and vice a versa. My view is that if there was a supreme being, for the most part he/she is not involved in the physical occurrences in this world, but I can't prove it. If you are in the wrong place at the wrong time, your life will be over before you know it. If there is a reason for this life, it is to experience and learn what you can before it's over.

I don't want you to feel insulted since you seem like a pretty good person, but...

If the Adam and Eve story is a parable/symboloic, that means there was no original sin, no reason for your Christ figure to die, and the entire premise fo Christianity sort of falls apart.

I consider the story of Adam and Eve one of the worst stories in the Bible. First of all Eve (a women- keep in mind who was writing these stories )blows it for all human-kind. And the wise and powerful God decides not only to punish her and Adam, but all of their descendants. Talk about vengeful and petty diety!

I believe that Jesus really existed and that He healed people.
About the Exodus, I don't know if it is historical or if it is a story, or if it was somewhat true and built up to legendary proportions like Robin Hood was. It happened so long ago. The earliest way to tell these stories was word of mouth. And if there were any earlier copies than the ones that have been found, they probably disintegrated a long time ago.
I watched a show on the science channel or PBS that talked about finding evidence of King David- not King David himself but that of Goliath. They've said evidence may be suggesting that King David really existed. Of course his kingdom was small- we always picture it to be so large. Since it was very small, history would have ignored it, for the most part.
And David was well after the Exodus.

I watched a show on the History Channel and an Angelican Priest who researched the issue, claimed there is no historical evidence for Jesus outside of religious documents. In other words, there are no town records, census, or any bureaucratic evidence for Jesus. I thought that was interesting. And then they dropped the bomb about the Rosetta stone whose origin is around 100bc and basically tells the story of a Jesus-like character. I'm a recent arrival to this forum so I don't know if you all have discussed this before or not.

 

[Beaudreaux]

From physical standpoint, as you said there are those who claim God interacts with the physical word, healing people. One step further, there are true believers who feel that God takes care of his/her believers.

Regarding miraculous healing, I know an individual who was pronounced dead at his home, revived on his own at the hospital, went through all sorts of physical trials, but is alive today. He claims this is due to divine intervention. I'd say something mysterious happened, but don't feel like it was a supreme diety at work. All the people in his church are convinced for whatever reason, God saw fit to save him. Can I refute that? No not really, but I remain unconvinced.

I am also unconvinced, but let's say that this man is correct, that God did heal him and that it was a good thing. That means that people are well within their rights to try and understand things about God based on His physical manifestations. We can reasonably claim that God wanted this man to live, but we can just as reasonably claim that God did not want all the people who he did not save from death that day to die. Why didn't he help them? What does that say about his character and nature?

 

[Kriya Yogi]

In my belief God interacts with everything in our world. How could he not? He is the world, every being, the universe, and everything existing. He does it all. Its the illusion that we are doing this or that, that makes us believe otherwise, or cause us to ask these types of questions.

 

[Arav]

In Gaudiya Vaishnavism, the Material world is Gods external energy. So matter is another one of Gods energies. God also does interact with the world and comes every once in a while (once in a day of Brahma) and gives us His Names, shows us his glorious Form and Pastimes.

Hare Krsna

 

[NeoSeeker]

I am also unconvinced, but let's say that this man is correct, that God did heal him and that it was a good thing. That means that people are well within their rights to try and understand things about God based on His physical manifestations. We can reasonably claim that God wanted this man to live, but we can just as reasonably claim that God did not want all the people who he did not save from death that day to die. Why didn't he help them? What does that say about his character and nature?

Which leads to my favorite example : the tornado in your neighborhood! All of your neighbors go to the same church. It comes through and knocks everyone house down but yours. You step outside, look up and say "Thanks God for sparing my house!", but what about all of your church going neighbors?? They crawl out of the rubble and ask "Why God why???" Why weren't they deserving?

Which leads to my favorite conclusion : ***** happens. There are no guarantees, if you are in the wrong place at the wrong time your earthly journey is over. In the big scheme, I don't think God (if he/she/it exists as publicized) is really concerned about these kind of Earthly matters. Running the universe takes up most of his free time.

 

[Kriya Yogi]

Which leads to my favorite example : the tornado in your neighborhood! All of your neighbors go to the same church. It comes through and knocks everyone house down but yours. You step outside, look up and say "Thanks God for sparing my house!", but what about all of your church going neighbors?? They crawl out of the rubble and ask "Why God why???" Why weren't they deserving?

Which leads to my favorite conclusion : ***** happens. There are no guarantees, if you are in the wrong place at the wrong time your earthly journey is over. In the big scheme, I don't think God (if he/she/it exists as publicized) is really concerned about these kind of Earthly matters. Running the universe takes up most of his free time.

This is why there is a law of Karma. Things that happen to people are for a reason or past action in a previous life. God sometimes intervenes and lessens this Karma if prayed to deeply. Only he knows if that karma is beneficial to the being to be experienced or not. He usually allows people to live freely unless a Divine intercession is made by a Saint or a prayer. That does not mean that he does not protect his saints, for he does, but like I said only when he see's fit. You may choose to believe this or not, but to me its the only justification to the way things work in this world. For if things happened randomely then God would have no control, and that is a contradiction to his power.

 

[Arav]

This is why there is a law of Karma. Things that happen to people are for a reason or past action in a previous life. God sometimes intervenes and lessens this Karma if prayed to deeply. Only he knows if that karma is beneficial to the being to be experienced or not. He usually allows people to live freely unless a Divine intercession is made by a Saint or a prayer. That does not mean that he does not protect his saints, for he does, but like I said only when he see's fit. You may choose to believe this or not, but to me its the only justification to the way things work in this world. For if things happened randomely then God would have no control, and that is a contradiction to his power.

That is exacly how I see it Kriya Yogi. I see that Karma is the controlling energy of God in which He chooses what the outcome of everything is. He alone chooses whether I succeed or fail. We do the action and according to that action and how it was done, intentions, etc. God will choose what the right outcome should be. But, if one atones, prays, or surrenders to the Lord, he will certainly free one from all evil reactions.

Bhagavad-Gita
Chapter 18 Text 66
sarva-dharman parityajya
mam ekam saranam vraja
aham tvam sarva-papebhyo
mokshayisyami ma sucah
Translation
Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reactions. Do not fear.​

 

[NeoSeeker]

This is why there is a law of Karma. Things that happen to people are for a reason or past action in a previous life. God sometimes intervenes and lessens this Karma if prayed to deeply. Only he knows if that karma is beneficial to the being to be experienced or not. He usually allows people to live freely unless a Divine intercession is made by a Saint or a prayer. That does not mean that he does not protect his saints, for he does, but like I said only when he see's fit. You may choose to believe this or not, but to me its the only justification to the way things work in this world. For if things happened randomely then God would have no control, and that is a contradiction to his power.

I can't dispute the idea of Karma any more than I can argue if you are bad in this life, you'll come back as a bug in the next life. It falls within the realm of faith. While Karma could have some impact on your life in a natural event, I believe for the most part, the destruction happens where it is going to happen. Maybe your life is spared, but that is just conjecture.

As far as prayer I can't really make an intelligent argument for or against. Praying, ie, wanting something to happen, if there is a mechanism there, you can't really put a finger on it using logic. Again, you must fall back on faith, and assume someone who has the power to change an outcome is listening to you.

 

[Kriya Yogi]

That is exacly how I see it Kriya Yogi. I see that Karma is the controlling energy of God in which He chooses what the outcome of everything is. He alone chooses whether I succeed or fail. We do the action and according to that action and how it was done, intentions, etc. God will choose what the right outcome should be. But, if one atones, prays, or surrenders to the Lord, he will certainly free one from all evil reactions.

Bhagavad-Gita
Chapter 18 Text 66
sarva-dharman parityajya
mam ekam saranam vraja
aham tvam sarva-papebhyo
mokshayisyami ma sucah
Translation

Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reactions. Do not fear.​

Exactly! I love that text from the Bhagavad-Gita.

 

[Kriya Yogi]

I can't dispute the idea of Karma any more than I can argue if you are bad in this life, you'll come back as a bug in the next life. It falls within the realm of faith. While Karma could have some impact on your life in a natural event, I believe for the most part, the destruction happens where it is going to happen. Maybe your life is spared, but that is just conjecture.

As far as prayer I can't really make an intelligent argument for or against. Praying, ie, wanting something to happen, if there is a mechanism there, you can't really put a finger on it using logic. Again, you must fall back on faith, and assume someone who has the power to change an outcome is listening to you.

Some people's faith is blind, and some is based on actual experiences. In other words there are different levels and strengths of faith. It is up to you to uncover those different levels. Sometimes however, God will strengthen it by giving you an experience. If you pray to him deeply and sincerely to strengthen your faith he will do so. You just have to believe and then watch every moment and you will see how your prayer is answered. I've done it many times. The problem is many don't apply themselves enough or open their minds and yet still say God or faith is nonsense.

 

[Arav]

The problem is many don't apply themselves enough or open their minds and yet still say God or faith is nonsense.

YES!!!! Thank you Kriya Yogi for saying this! This is a problem I have with many people, without opening their minds or putting enough work into it, they expect God to show himself. Why would God show himself to an atheist who says "Show yourself!" and has put in no effort? God will show himself to those who work and are devoted to him and have put in the effort, not people who merely say "Show yourself". Then if that atheist where to have a vision of God, they would pass it off as a dream or possible schitzophrenia.

 

[Kriya Yogi]

YES!!!! Thank you Kriya Yogi for saying this! This is a problem I have with many people, without opening their minds or putting enough work into it, they expect God to show himself. Why would God show himself to an atheist who says "Show yourself!" and has put in no effort? God will show himself to those who work and are devoted to him and have put in the effort, not people who merely say "Show yourself". Then if that atheist where to have a vision of God, they would pass it off as a dream or possible schitzophrenia.

Very true my friend!!! God allows us free will to choose how we want to live. That is part of this existance. We must choose to meet him halfway and begin to uncover his presence with love, prayer, and or meditation. It is only until we begin to say this world is not enough and that I want to know you that he will begin to unveil his presence unto you. I believe some atheists deep down want to know if God exists, they are just to preoccupied in their own life or doubts to give time to actually see if God exists within. God will not be seen outwardly until we begin to see his Bliss, Love, Joy, and Wisdom within. This I can attest to.

 

[waitasec]

I cannot of course speak for all faiths, but as an ex-Christian, I know that God was understood to be a spiritual being. He was also purported to have interacted directly with the physical world through miracles and the sending of His son to earth. My questions to theists are:

• Is your God a spiritual being?
• Does He exist solely in the non-physical realm or does he directly affect the physical world as well?

It seems to me that if God only exists in the spiritual realm then there is nothing that can be learned about him. If he directly affects the physical world then we can derive information about him through both his actions and by his inactions.

of course "god" doesn't interact in the physical world
that is why there are so many religions

 

[Arav]

of course "god" doesn't interact in the physical world
that is why there are so many religions

I find no correlation between the number of religions and Gods interaction.

 

[xkatz]

No, not at least in a way that can be comprehended by humankind.

 

[Arav]

No, not at least in a way that can be comprehended by humankind.

Could you go into more depth about this, xkatz? I see in the Torah that the Jewish God is always interacting with humans and things like this, am I mistaken? I could be, I dont know too much about Judaism. Please Enlighten me

 

[xkatz]

Could you go into more depth about this, xkatz? I see in the Torah that the Jewish God is always interacting with humans and things like this, am I mistaken? I could be, I dont know too much about Judaism. Please Enlighten me

Well TBH, I see G-d's interactions in the Tanakh/Torah as more allegorical than literal in context OR in simpler terms- I am NOT a literalist

 

[Arav]

Well TBH, I see G-d's interactions in the Tanakh/Torah as more allegorical than literal in context or in simpler terms- I am NOT a literalist

Ah, I see. Thanks for clearing that up!