Donald Trump is digging his own grave

[Callisto]

That's what you're hinging this entire thing on???

Yep. Blind support of Trump is far too flimsy to ever support the weight of facts and reality. Thats why it's necessary to try and keep shifting focus and toss around inane questions. Anything to divert from the orange elephant in the room.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Yep. Blind support of Trump is far too flimsy to ever support the weight of facts and reality. Thats why it's necessary to try and keep shifting focus and toss around inane questions. Anything to divert from the orange elephant in the room.

Haven't you heard? He is no longer orange. Now the color is imPeach.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Let me put it like this, zelinski was supposidly blackmailed, right? If he denied he was, why not believe him?

Also, if trump asks a favor with no DIRECT link to aid and thats wrong, ok

But biden gives an order that is DIRECTLY linked to aid and thats alright?

How many times has this been explained to you? Biden's use of aid as pressure was a legal action that was supported by the not only the U.S. government but many of our allies. It was done to fight corruption in the Ukraine. They had a crooked prosecutor. Meanwhile Trump's use of aid had nothing to do with corruption. There is no evidence nor reason to believe that Biden is corrupt. He asked for an illegal investigation into a competitor thus violating campaign finance laws.

Do you think that you would let yourself understand if the specific laws violated were linked again? I don't think that you are able to do that. You appear to have massive confirmation bias when your errant beliefs are threatened.

Trump's own staff recognized what he had done. That was why they tried to hide the transcript.

 

[Callisto]

Haven't you heard? He is no longer orange. Now the color is imPeach.

With a refreshing amount of (imprison)-mint.

 

[Jose Fly]

Dum, dum, dum........

Chris Murphy on Twitter

"Fiona Hill describes this scene: In a White House meeting, Sondland tells Ukrainians they will get a Trump meeting if they open the investigations Trump wants. Then, Sondland follows the Ukrainians out of the meeting to privately make clear he's talking about Hunter Biden."​

One way or another, Sondland is a major player in this whole saga. The question is, which side of history will he align himself with?

 

[sooda]

Dum, dum, dum........

Chris Murphy on Twitter

"Fiona Hill describes this scene: In a White House meeting, Sondland tells Ukrainians they will get a Trump meeting if they open the investigations Trump wants. Then, Sondland follows the Ukrainians out of the meeting to privately make clear he's talking about Hunter Biden."​

One way or another, Sondland is a major player in this whole saga. The question is, which side of history will he align himself with?

"Fiona Hill, the White House’s former top Russia adviser, told impeachment investigators on Monday that Rudolph W. Giuliani, the president’s personal lawyer, ran a shadow foreign policy in Ukraine that circumvented U.S. officials and career diplomats in order to personally benefit President Trump, according to people familiar with her testimony."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/trumps-former-top-russia-adviser-to-testify-in-house-impeachment-probe/2019/10/14/e6015c1c-ee34-11e9-8693-f487e46784aa_story.html

 

[Jollybear]

Zelensky is in over his head and, as an old saying goes "doesn't know whether to sh** or go blind."

Thats your assertion. Nothing more.

Stop repeating the same old disproven false equivalency.

Its not disproven. Whats wrong with you? If its wrong for trump to ask, then its wrong for biden too. Its biden didnt do wrong, niether did trump. If its wrong, then its wrong for everyone. If its right, then its right for everyone.

The law is objective, not subjective. That dont mean motives arent taken into account either, they are.

It's already been addressed (scroll back if you must) - multiple countries of IMF, EU and allies in addition to Biden for the US. Your accusation is false, move on.

No im not moving on, make me.

Zelensky is in a tight spot and, as the saying goes, doesn't know whether to sh** or go blind. He's already dealing with criticisms for not yet making good on his own campaign promises. Now he's dealing with criticisms in his own country over the call and is trying to downplay having been coerced by Trump. In Ukraine, he's described as a "A pathetic sycophant in front of a more influential clown," with the call referred to as "a disaster". And, "It is quite obvious from the tone of the conversation that Zelensky acts like a junior partner... Zelensky appears to succumb to manipulation."

Again, your assertions. And who cares what critics say. Proof and consistency is all i got time for.

Funny how you expect others to cite sources yet you never support your arguments. More deflection and ducking about.

BS. I do cite sources, not in every single post, but if you want something specifically cited, JUST ASK. Ill gladly get it for you.

How about you start citing federal law that shows Trump did nothing wrong. Or hell, to even show Biden did do something wrong since that's your favorite go to what-aboutism.

No, they made the charge, they cite this law. And the law would be the same for both trump and biden.

You're in no position to tell someone to do what you routinely fail to do.

Be carefull there, your crossing the line.

As for the federal law in question that's already referenced in earlier posts, which I suspect you know.

Yea, i saw that, and i also saw it had two parts, which the other part was cherry picked.

 

[sooda]

Thats your assertion. Nothing more.



Its not disproven. Whats wrong with you? If its wrong for trump to ask, then its wrong for biden too. Its biden didnt do wrong, niether did trump. If its wrong, then its wrong for everyone. If its right, then its right for everyone.

The law is objective, not subjective. That dont mean motives arent taken into account either, they are.



No im not moving on, make me.



Again, your assertions. And who cares what critics say. Proof and consistency is all i got time for.



BS. I do cite sources, not in every single post, but if you want something specifically cited, JUST ASK. Ill gladly get it for you.



No, they made the charge, they cite this law. And the law would be the same for both trump and biden.



Be carefull there, your crossing the line.



Yea, i saw that, and i also saw it had two parts, which the other part was cherry picked.

Trump's obstruction is collapsing. Too many people are coming forward.

Trump doesn't know he did anything wrong.. He's always operated this way.

 

[Jollybear]

How many times has this been explained to you? Biden's use of aid as pressure was a legal action that was supported by the not only the U.S. government but many of our allies. It was done to fight corruption in the Ukraine. They had a crooked prosecutor. Meanwhile Trump's use of aid had nothing to do with corruption. There is no evidence nor reason to believe that Biden is corrupt. He asked for an illegal investigation into a competitor thus violating campaign finance laws.

Do you think that you would let yourself understand if the specific laws violated were linked again? I don't think that you are able to do that. You appear to have massive confirmation bias when your errant beliefs are threatened.

Trump's own staff recognized what he had done. That was why they tried to hide the transcript.

Yea, and trumps reason in asking the favor was also due to fighting corruption.

You can say trumps lying about his motives all you want, but thats purely your opinion.

Also, what is biden doing meddling into ukraines business anyway? Thats there country, if they have a "corrupt prosecuter", then thats on them.

 

[Callisto]

Too bad the GOP has completely jumped the rails, Weld is the type of candidate they should be backing. Unfortunately, they've become so extreme right-wing and corrupt, there's little hope for an intelligent capable candidate.

As usual, Fox continues to peddle the fallacy the impeachment inquiry is just the Democrats persecuting Trump and won't let the GOP have any idea of what's going on. Uhm, there are 435 voting seats in the House... 197 of which are Republicans. The party knows exactly what's going on, they just aren't free to play fast and loose with the information being collected or interfere with the testimonies beyond trying to ignore subpoenas and screeching "executive privilege!".

 

[Callisto]

Thats your assertion. Nothing more.

Wrong. Prove it.

Its not disproven. Whats wrong with you? If its wrong for trump to ask, then its wrong for biden too. Its biden didnt do wrong, niether did trump. If its wrong, then its wrong for everyone. If its right, then its right for everyone.

Where is the evidence? Where are the subsequent inquiries? Stop the what-aboutism and cite verifiable facts for a change. You talk a lot, but don't support it.

No im not moving on, make me.

ROFL!! That's a mature response. Of course you won't move on from deflection and false equivalency, you wouldn't have anything to post then.

Again, your assertions. And who cares what critics say. Proof and consistency is all i got time for.

You mean the proof that consistently shows Trump is a conman, a liar and wannabe autocrat? Where is your proof he's not? Where is the proof against Biden?

BS. I do cite sources, not in every single post, but if you want something specifically cited, JUST ASK. Ill gladly get it for you.

I've asked repeatedly. Per usual, you ignore such requests along with failing to address the topic at hand when the evidence shows Trump is corrupt. You can start by answering the above.

Note, I frequently link to sources to support my comments without needing to be asked. I assume you're not a child and should know - if you're not being disingenuous - that one should support their argument without needing to be told.

No, they made the charge, they cite this law. And the law would be the same for both trump and biden.

Evidence? Note, you're being asked. Cite "this law" you're referring to, what the change is and any evidence to Biden being in violation either before or after.

Be carefull there, your crossing the line.

How is it you say? Oh, yes... "make me."

I've told you point blank I have zero tolerance for partisan bs. So, that was your clue. If you can't handle the discussion yet choose to continue, that's on you.

 

[Jollybear]

Also just recently, hunter biden admits to being part of the "swamp".

Exclusive: Hunter Biden defends foreign ventures, admits making ‘mistake’ politically

 

[Callisto]

Trump's obstruction is collapsing. Too many people are coming forward.

Trump doesn't know he did anything wrong.. He's always operated this way.

Which speaks to him being a textbook narcissist. He needed to be removed long ago.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Yea, and trumps reason in asking the favor was also due to fighting corruption.

You can say trumps lying about his motives all you want, but thats purely your opinion.

Also, what is biden doing meddling into ukraines business anyway? Thats there country, if they have a "corrupt prosecuter", then thats on them.

No, that claim has been debunked. His purpose was political and that was what makes it illegal. It is not just my opinion. There is a proper way to do an investigation. He did not do that. His actions speak much louder than words.

And you really really need to quit assuming that others have your flaws. You rely on opinion. I can quote experts in the field.

 

[Callisto]

Also just recently, hunter biden admits to being part of the "swamp".

Exclusive: Hunter Biden defends foreign ventures, admits making ‘mistake’ politically

Taking what he said out of context doesn't make him guilty of illegal activity:

"In retrospect, look, I think that it was poor judgment on my part... because I don't believe now, when I look back on it -- I know that there was -- did nothing wrong at all," Hunter Biden told ABC News in an exclusive interview. "However, was it poor judgment to be in the middle of something that is...a swamp in — in — in many ways? Yeah."

"I gave a hook to some very unethical people to act in illegal ways to try to do some harm to my father. That's where I made the mistake," said Biden. "So I take full responsibility for that. Did I do anything improper? No, not in any way. Not in any way whatsoever."

(Hunter) Biden said, "I take -- full responsibility for that. Do I -- did I do anything improper? No, and not in any way. Not in any way whatsoever. I joined a board, I served honorably. I did -- I focused on corporate governance. I didn't have any discussions with my father before or after I joined the board as it related to it, other than that brief exchange that we had." ...

Hunter Biden told ABC News he does not specifically regret those business ventures, but wishes he had anticipated future attacks from his father's political rivals. "What I regret is not taking into account that there would be a Rudy Giuliani and a president of the United States that would be listening to this -- this ridiculous conspiracy idea."

 

[sooda]

Which speaks to him being a textbook narcissist. He needed to be removed long ago.

Yep. He's not much of a man.

 

[Jollybear]

Wrong. Prove it.


Where is the evidence? Where are the subsequent inquiries? Stop the what-aboutism and cite verifiable facts for a change. You talk a lot, but don't support it.


ROFL!! That's a mature response. Of course you won't move on from deflection and false equivalency, you wouldn't have anything to post then.


You mean the proof that consistently shows Trump is a conman, a liar and wannabe autocrat? Where is your proof he's not? Where is the proof against Biden?


I've asked repeatedly. Per usual, you ignore such requests along with failing to address the topic at hand when the evidence shows Trump is corrupt. You can start by answering the above.

Note, I frequently link to sources to support my comments without needing to be asked. I assume you're not a child and should know - if you're not being disingenuous - that one should support their argument without needing to be told.


Evidence? Note, you're being asked. Cite "this law" you're referring to, what the change is and any evidence to Biden being in violation either before or after.


How is it you say? Oh, yes... "make me."

I've told you point blank I have zero tolerance for partisan bs. So, that was your clue. If you can't handle the discussion yet choose to continue, that's on you.

I find it unbelievable how you can rationalize away a clear cut double standard from the democrats.

If trump asks a favor, thats bad, but if biden does it, thats good.

Oh and i flipped back and found that law

18 U.S. Code § 953 - Private correspondence with foreign governments

Taking what he said out of context doesn't make him guilty of illegal activity:

"In retrospect, look, I think that it was poor judgment on my part... because I don't believe now, when I look back on it -- I know that there was -- did nothing wrong at all," Hunter Biden told ABC News in an exclusive interview. "However, was it poor judgment to be in the middle of something that is...a swamp in — in — in many ways? Yeah."

"I gave a hook to some very unethical people to act in illegal ways to try to do some harm to my father. That's where I made the mistake," said Biden. "So I take full responsibility for that. Did I do anything improper? No, not in any way. Not in any way whatsoever."

(Hunter) Biden said, "I take -- full responsibility for that. Do I -- did I do anything improper? No, and not in any way. Not in any way whatsoever. I joined a board, I served honorably. I did -- I focused on corporate governance. I didn't have any discussions with my father before or after I joined the board as it related to it, other than that brief exchange that we had." ...

Hunter Biden told ABC News he does not specifically regret those business ventures, but wishes he had anticipated future attacks from his father's political rivals. "What I regret is not taking into account that there would be a Rudy Giuliani and a president of the United States that would be listening to this -- this ridiculous conspiracy idea."

Oh so its a conspiracy that hunter and biden did wrong, but it IS NOT a conspiracy that trump did wrong? AGAIN, you dont see the clear double standard?

I find the blindness amazing. Your hatred of trump has blinded you to what REAL corruption is. And that does a injustice to the issues of REAL corruption.

 

[Shad]

"Fiona Hill, the White House’s former top Russia adviser, told impeachment investigators on Monday that Rudolph W. Giuliani, the president’s personal lawyer, ran a shadow foreign policy in Ukraine that circumvented U.S. officials and career diplomats in order to personally benefit President Trump, according to people familiar with her testimony."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/trumps-former-top-russia-adviser-to-testify-in-house-impeachment-probe/2019/10/14/e6015c1c-ee34-11e9-8693-f487e46784aa_story.html

I pointed this out days ago.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I pointed this out days ago.

Giuliani may be the President's downfall. Not because he did things that Trump did not want him to do, but because he did things that Trump wanted him to do. The rest of the staff has tried to keep him out of trouble by opposing his wishes at times.

 

[Callisto]

I find it unbelievable how you can rationalize away a clear cut double standard from the democrats.

If trump asks a favor, thats bad, but if biden does it, thats good.

Oh and i flipped back and found that law

18 U.S. Code § 953 - Private correspondence with foreign governments



Oh so its a conspiracy that hunter and biden did wrong, but it IS NOT a conspiracy that trump did wrong? AGAIN, you dont see the clear double standard?

I find the blindness amazing. Your hatred of trump has blinded you to what REAL corruption is. And that does a injustice to the issues of REAL corruption.

No double standard. It's very simple, provide evidence to support your allegations. Neither Republicans nor the international news sources nor FOX news has substantiated the allegation. It's been debunked, denial doesn't change that.

I see you are utterly confused, unless you're deliberately being obtuse. I don't presume to know which. Firstly, Biden did not ask for a favor. This has been explained to you, in very clear language, repeatedly. So, your repetition makes no sense. Biden didn't go rogue, he didn't try to strike a personal deal, he wasn't sent to convey one thing but then unilaterally decided to go off script. He didn't act outside of protocol. He was authorized to represent the U.S. and voiced the same issues as other countries - IMF, EU and other allies. Serious question: what part of this do you not understand? He didn't act alone, he was one of MANY COUNTRIES' diplomats who called for the same.

Do. you. understand?

Secondly, the Logan Act (U.S. Code § 953) is not applicable for two reasons. Besides the fact Biden's actions were authorized and represented the US' stance, he also wasn't in violation of it because it pertains to private citizens like Guilani, who IS in clear violation of it. Take your time and read what it actually states:

"Any citizen of the United States, wherever he may be, who, without authority of the United States, directly or indirectly commences or carries on any correspondence or intercourse with any foreign government or any officer or agent thereof, with intent to influence the measures or conduct of any foreign government or of any officer or agent thereof, in relation to any disputes or controversies with the United States, or to defeat the measures of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both."

Mull it over. Let it sink in. US citizen, i.e. not a duly authorized official. Private citizens cannot negotiate with a foreign government on behalf of the U.S. So, Giuliani not only broke that law but wasn't even acting for the US supposed best interests but covertly for Trump's personal political interests.

Do. you. understand? If not, read any number of articles that explain it. (Example)

The only blind one here is you. You don't see the difference between authorized political actions that follow protocol and the corrupt acts of a criminal narcissist who only serves his own criminal agenda.

Every American SHOULD be outraged and disgusted by the actions of this president. He's brought nothing but sheer dishonor to the office and has ruined America's reputation.