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"Donald Trump Jr. Just Tweeted Out Pretty Clear Evidence That He Broke The Law [...]"

Jeremiahcp

Jeremiahcp

Well-Known Jerk
Donald Trump Jr. released emails on Tuesday that offer pretty direct evidence that he broke campaign finance law, according to campaign experts.

It is illegal to solicit, accept or receive contributions and donations ― which includes things of value such as opposition research ― from foreign nationals.
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In an email chain titled “Russia - Clinton - private and confidential,” Trump Jr., who is President Donald Trump’s son, wrote that he’d “love” to have documents that an intermediary said “would incriminate Hillary [Clinton] and her dealings with Russia.” The intermediary described the documents as “very high level and sensitive information” that was “part of Russia and its government’s support for Mr. Trump.”
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Donald Trump Jr. Just Tweeted Out Pretty Clear Evidence That He Broke The Law, Experts Say

You can read the emails here (which were released by Donald Trump Jr. himself):

Donald Trump Jr. responded by posting the emails on Twitter. Here they are.
 
Falvlun

Falvlun

Earthbending Lemur
Premium Member
Nakosis said:
What's the value of opposition research that is freely given?
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It's so interesting seeing the terminology used by Right wing media percolate through their base.

And it completely misses the point.

You are trying to spin this as politics as usual, opponents trying to dig up the nastiest dirt on each other. Literally no one is complaining about that. We all know that campaigns try to find the best mud to sling.

The issue is that this particular mud was illegally obtained by a foreign government, and members of the Trump campaign attempted to obtain it through someone connected with that government, in full understanding that the Russian government was behind it.

That's the issue. Is anyone on the Right actually willing to address it?

Nakosis said:
Since nothing was actually given, freely or otherwise looks like another red herring.
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So it's ok to plot a murder as long as it's not carried out? It's ok to attempt to buy drugs as long as you don't score any? It's ok to go to a bank with the intention to rob it, as long as you don't actually succeed? It's ok to attempt to collude with a foreign government as long as the deal falls through?

Nakosis said:
But if I'm wrong and it amounts to something, let me know. At this point it's not even news worthy.
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It's not news that we have documentation that high level people in the Trump campaign willingly went to someone labeled as part of the Russian government in order to obtain information to damage their opponent.

K.
 
Shadow Wolf

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Nakosis said:
What's the value of opposition research that is freely given?
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The possibility of baiting someone into a position who is incredibly unlikely to think it possible someone is leading them on. It's very suspicious that they would say "hey, we have this information you're going to love." Given his tweets, it seems Junior is dumb, blind, and oblivious to the obvious suspicions of the Russians wanting to just give him information, and it seems he has never considered what the actual cost of that information was, but seems to think it was a great deal without consequence. For all we know, this was a "seed" in Russia's efforts to undermine the American system.
I don't have more details or a magic crystal ball, but there is no such thing as a free lunch, and such information wouldn't be free or cheap. The value of just giving such information isn't apparent, but they wouldn't have just given it just to be friendly.
 
Quetzal

Quetzal

A little to the left and slightly out of focus.
Premium Member
Falvlun

Falvlun

Earthbending Lemur
Premium Member
Here's a couple of juicy excerpts from the emails, my bolding:
On Jun 3, 2016, at 10:36 AM, Rob Goldstone wrote:
....
This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government's support for Mr. Trump - helped along by Aras and Emin.
....

~~~~~~
On Jun 7, 2016, at 4:20 PM, Rob Goldstone wrote:
....
Emin asked that I schedule a meeting with you and The Russian government attorney who is flying over from Moscow for this Thursday.
....
~~~~~~

They literally knowingly went to the Russian government for information. Holy crap.
 
leibowde84

leibowde84

Veteran Member
Nakosis said:
What's the value of opposition research that is freely given?

Since nothing was actually given, freely or otherwise looks like another red herring.

But if I'm wrong and it amounts to something, let me know. At this point it's not even news worthy.

Do you suffer from Trump Derangement Syndrome?
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It wasn't freely given. The cost was the consideration to remove sanctions against Russia. If that is proven, then it is illegal. But, I think Donald Trump Jr. would be the one prosecuted, not The Donald.
 
Jeremiahcp

Jeremiahcp

Well-Known Jerk
Shadow Wolf said:
The possibility of baiting someone into a position who is incredibly unlikely to think it possible someone is leading them on. It's very suspicious that they would say "hey, we have this information you're going to love." Given his tweets, it seems Junior is dumb, blind, and oblivious to the obvious suspicions of the Russians wanting to just give him information, and it seems he has never considered what the actual cost of that information was, but seems to think it was a great deal without consequence. For all we know, this was a "seed" in Russia's efforts to undermine the American system.
I don't have more details or a magic crystal ball, but there is no such thing as a free lunch, and such information wouldn't be free or cheap. The value of just giving such information isn't apparent, but they wouldn't have just given it just to be friendly.
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"Junior is dumb, blind, and oblivious to the obvious suspicions of the Russians wanting to just give him information, and it seems he has never considered what the actual cost of that information was, but seems to think it was a great deal without consequence."

The Trump family may be use to handling business in such manners (unethically) and just assumed they could transpose such behavior into politics. They are ignorant of the laws and they are not use to working in a spotlight as bright as the US presidency. They don't know what they are doing and this incompetence is showing. Junior probably released these emails before they were released for him. They likely figured it was gonna come out anyways, and this way Junior can have the appearance of trying to have transparency. I doubt releasing the emails was his idea.
 
Nous

Nous

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
There are several statutes (McCain-Feingold Act; Stored Communications Act) that were conceivably violated by merely what Junior has admitted so far. And he was nice enough to provide the emails showing that he knew that it was wrong. Good for him. Unlike the President, Junior isn't shielded from prosecution. The only reason a special prosecutor would pass up indicting Junior on this would be if the prosecutor has or gets something much, much worse.
 
Bob the Unbeliever

Bob the Unbeliever

Well-Known Member
It would be Very Russian to deliberately try to get trumpEm in office, and then? Do everything they could to undermine his presidency.

To the Russians? A very weak president would be Ideal in their worldview: no one to stop them from doing as they please.

They really were afraid of Clinton, obviously. But they own trumpEm.

And yeah, they would totally destroy him too.
 
Nakosis

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
Falvlun said:
The issue is that this particular mud was illegally obtained by a foreign government, and members of the Trump campaign attempted to obtain it through someone connected with that government, in full understanding that the Russian government was behind it.
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No mud, nothing was illegally obtained, no Russian government involvement. As Van Jones from CNN likes to say, a big nothing burger.

That's the issue. Is anyone on the Right actually willing to address it?
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DT Jr has said he will provide any information, transcripts or testify under oath, cooperate in any manner necessary.

So it's ok to plot a murder as long as it's not carried out? It's ok to attempt to buy drugs as long as you don't score any? It's ok to go to a bank with the intention to rob it, as long as you don't actually succeed? It's ok to attempt to collude with a foreign government as long as the deal falls through?
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I don't know, I'm pretty much a moral relativist. Circumstances matter. Still if he broke the law he broke the law. Until he's indicted folks only have their personal moral outrage to keep them warm.

It's not news that we have documentation that high level people in the Trump campaign willingly went to someone labeled as part of the Russian government in order to obtain information to damage their opponent.
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So did the DNC. If that's a crime, I'll wait for the indictments.

Actually, more likely I just wait to see what they come up with next week when this goes no where.

The sad thing though is like the boy who cried wolf, if they finally do find some real criminal activity in the Trump administration, no one is going to pay attention.
 
Nakosis

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
leibowde84 said:
It wasn't freely given. The cost was the consideration to remove sanctions against Russia. If that is proven, then it is illegal. But, I think Donald Trump Jr. would be the one prosecuted, not The Donald.
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What are you talking about? This was a 20 minute meeting about a Russian adoption program. No one from the Russian government was involved.

Sure as soon as someone proves there's a china teapot orbiting the sun, I might have to accept God to, until then, I suppose I'll continue to find humor at the extremes folks go to to convince themselves of something.

The other side did the same with Hillary. I don't recall it being to this extent though. That came to nothing.

We ask for proof before believing in God but not for politics.
 
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