Don't Blame Me For Not Accepting Jesus

[lostwanderingsoul]

What most "Christians" do not realize is that everyone is not expected to "believe in Jesus" right now. Jesus himself said that no one can come to Him unless the Father draws him.So it is not your choice. You can only believe if the Father wants you to believe. This is one reason why "Christianity" is questioned so much and is declining in popularity. They have stopped believing what the Bible teaches and have started believing false teachings.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Things do not have to make sense (logically) to be useful. They can appeal as social vehicle, represent ones morality, or as a emotional support infrastructure. (Just a few examples, off the top of my head.) That's probably the thing that most "logical" people miss about the function of religion, in that it is much more than the books/dogma/etc. In that way, the religion can be an outwardly visible symbol of oneself that can be shared with the world. At least, if you pick one rather than just being bootstrapped into it from birth.

I don't know any rational people who miss this point at all. In fact, they understand that religion is primarily emotionally- and socially-driven. The problem is that many religious people like to pass it off as though it is rational, which it clearly isn't. I have no problem with people using religion for emotional comfort, or as a tool for social compliance and acceptance. Just don't try to sell it to me like its claims about god, the afterlife, or other wishful thinking, are rational or fact-based.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I believe that is more a case of seeing what you wanted to see and ignoring the rest. Jesus didn't have to come to promote the law because that already existed. He had to come because no-one was able to keep the law.

No, it's seeing that time and time and time again he went on that his commandments were love and taking care of each other, especially the poor.

I believe that is a bit confused in your mind. Jesus encouraged communal worship. You are right that He did find fault with people on an ego trip.

This is based on when Jesus said when you pray to do it in a closet, and when you fast to not look or act like you are fasting. It seems very much so Jesus does not approve of public displays of faith, as their admiration then is their reward.

 

[Desert Snake]

According to Christian theology if I don't accept Jesus as my savior I will never make it into heaven and could likely end up in hell.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
(John 3:16)​

Christians say that if I don't accept Jesus as my savior it's my own darn fault. Okay, but consider. Why do we accept something or reject it? We do so because we're convinced it makes sense. I accept the fact that evolution is true because to me it makes sense. I reject creationism because to me it doesn't make sense. So, if I'm to accept Jesus as my savior, above all else it has to make sense that I do so. There has to be some kind of compelling rational, and without this rational it would be unreasonable to agree to the proposition. I certainly wouldn't find believing in faeries and gnomes to be sensible if the only reason given is that this is what many people down through the ages have believed. People down through the ages also believed the earth was flat. I would need a more compelling rational to accept faeries and gnomes as a reasonable belief.

So, whose fault is it that I don't? Is it my fault that my mind has been so constructed that it rejects the argument of "people down through the ages have believed"? Hardly. Other than perhaps exercising the mind to work a bit better, none of us chooses how it accepts or rejects information. So what I believe is dependent on the information making its impression on my mind. I don't choose how information X is going to be processed. This process is an automatic one. Perhaps fear is a huge motivating factor within the processing operation. No matter how outlandish a proposition may be, scare me enough and I'll believe it. Or perhaps reason is thee controlling factor within the processing operation. Proposition XYZ has to make sense or I'll reject it. The thing is, we don't choose how these factors weigh in on our conclusions. Just as one doesn't choose what they find attractive about other people. What we find attractive and don't find attractive depends on how our minds have been configured. And this configuration is not something we choose. In effect, our mind is compelled to operate in a certain manner.

Therefore, we can't be held responsible for how our mind processes information. So, if I'm to find believing in faeries and gnomes sensible, where would the responsibility have to lie? What's left are those influences outside myself. If I'm to believe in faeries and gnomes then someone or something is going to have to persuade those deciding factors in my mind that it makes sense, and it's what I should do. Now, I have very little influence over what kind of evidence or argument I'm presented. It might even be a case of GIGO. If the ICFB, the International Council of Faerie Belief, fails to scare me into believing in faeries and gnomes, that's their fault, not mine. If the ICFB, fails to present a persuasive enough case to accept faeries and gnomes, that's their fault, not mine. And this goes right down to those individual representatives of the ICFB. If my neighbor down the block comes knocking on my door trying to get me to accept faeries and gnomes and fails, it's his fault, not mine. Or, if no one presents any information on faeries and gnomes for me to consider, it isn't my fault either.

So, In as much as I can't help how my mind processes information, and I can't help if the tactics of Christians fail to persuade me that believing in the Son is the way to an everlasting life, why should I perish because of it? If any blame is to be laid it has to be on those presenting, or failing to present, the case for Jesus.

.

I'm not here to convince anyone of anything.

 

[Desert Snake]

No, it's seeing that time and time and time again he went on that his commandments were love and taking care of each other, especially the poor.

Why do you think that Jesus is credible?

 

[Desert Snake]

I don't go around telling buddhists what the buddha taught, when I 'm not a buddhist.

 

[Muffled]

I agree that you cannot "choose" your beliefs, it is a combination of cultural influences, education, and your experience of reality. My 'gut instinct' BS detector is usually pretty good, when I hear something that sounds like BS but dig into it deeper to find out if there is anything more than ill founded assertions, I almost always get confirmation of BS. I cant help thinking "Yup, that's a load of old woo-woo talk", what am I supposed to do? Hit my head against a wall until it begins to make sense?
I would say that not all Christians proffer the scenario you outlined. LDS Christians believe you have several chances to change your mind when you die, and atheists can get into Telestial heaven. Now that seems a lot more reasonable and friendly...hurrah for the LDS Jesus!

I believe that is about as reliable as using a ouija board. I believe your results may be the self fulfilling prophecy. You want it to be so and lo and behold you view all the evidence as confirming it.

I believe the problem is there are no new arguments and the person never accepted the old ones so the odds favor that no change will be made.

I believe they will really enjoy thinking that while they are in hell,

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

I believe that is a nice try but I believe the information you have received is quite reasonable and your rejection of it unreasonable and therefore it is an active choice not a mental aberration. So you most certainly deserve to go to hell.

Reasonable? Is it reasonable to have to hear differing viewpoints on interpretations of the same text and be told by nearly all of them that you need to accept their ways or "go to hell?" Why would God/Jesus allow such disparity and bickering even among the general "flock" of believers? How many people have received "prophecy" or words from God, or feel that they are following the "true" path God has laid out, and call all the others "pharisees" or something similar? How about you, yourself? I am sure you think yourself correct in your beliefs. You probably feel that many believers are "doing it wrong" yourself. In the end, are you really any better than they are? I can answer that question correctly... can you?

Just in case you need a new perspective on it, God is good and everything else is bad. When You choose Jesus, you choose good and when you refuse Jesus you choose evil.

From my perspective, God is garbage. Literally, the word "god" is a waste of breath. Thoughts contemplating "God" are a waste of time. The disparity that religious belief and adherence brings to humanity is not worth the supposed benefits that we're expected to believe only come from religion. Those benefits exist elsewhere, and in plenty, and would, regardless whether religion existed or not. Do you know how I know? Humans are human, first and foremost. We do what we do, regardless how we try to label ourselves or one another. We follow our nature, and that nature can be kind or it can be cruel - the religion or belief set we subscribe to is secondary to our innate desires and drives. This is why you can have nonbelievers who are more kind/compassionate/altruistic than many believers, and why you can have believers who are terrible, cruel people. This is also why some people can pick up "faith" and wear it like a hat, only to discard it and pick another one up later. It is because religion is nothing more than a choice - a choice to try and find bits of yourself within an outside organization. A striving to find like-minds, because there is so many "unlike minds" that discourage us from believing we can fit in.

That means even though you don't do it yourself you are on the same side as those who rape and kill five year old girls.

Aren't you on the same side as clergy who coerce and rape young choir boys? That allegation right there holds the same amount of weight and honesty as yours. If you think otherwise, perhaps you should seek some sort of help.

 

[Desert Snake]

What most "Christians" do not realize is that everyone is not expected to "believe in Jesus" right now. Jesus himself said that no one can come to Him unless the Father draws him.So it is not your choice. You can only believe if the Father wants you to believe. This is one reason why "Christianity" is questioned so much and is declining in popularity. They have stopped believing what the Bible teaches and have started believing false teachings.

Not really. Real christians woudnt take up pentagrams and thor symbols, etc, unless they already werent real christians.

Perhaps its your mistaken idea of what christians should be.

 

[Muffled]

"If there is a god, that god should know exactly what it would take to change my mind...and that god should be capable of doing whatever it would take. The fact that this hasn't happened can only mean one of two things: Either no such god exists, or whatever god exists doesn't care to convince me, at this time. In either case, it's not my problem and there's nothing I can do about it. Meanwhile, all of those believers who think that there is a god who does want me to know that he exists - are clearly, obviously, undeniably... wrong." - Matt Dillahunty"

I believe it is possible that there is no way to change your mind. For stubbornness the Jews come to mind. No matter how good the arguments they ignore them because they refuse to believe anything different from what they wish to believe.

 

[bobhikes]

Huge difference, and I know you see it, you're just trying to remain "right." Are there plenty of people breaking laws without consequences in the real, physical world? Sure - there always will be because there can't ever be 100% coverage by "the authorities", and as you said, many times the rules are convoluted or completely unknown by the "perpetrating" party. But there are plenty who don't get away with their crimes - just look in on your local prison scene. And how many of those people breaking religion-ONLY based rules/laws (I'm not talking "thou shalt not kill" here, obviously as some like this exist in both religious and secular circles) do you see being punished by the supposed authority in that situation? Zero. There are only those punished by their physical/real brethren who are trying to hold them accountable "on God's behalf." Because apparently God can't handle things Himself... at all... ever. Or maybe He use to some thousands of years ago? Maybe? Someone wrote about it? Sounds tenuous to me.

The point being, the authorities in real-world situations, who attempt to act on real-world rules and laws ACTUALLY EXIST, are KNOWN TO EXIST, and are a force you may have to contend with if you decide to break those laws. The authorities are people like us, or even ourselves, and are at least trying to play mediator to the law-books with the public at large. God isn't trying. He can't. Last I checked, existence is sort of a prerequisite for "trying" anything.

The ten commandments are laws that are known to exist and actually for a time existed they are just older than the constitution which actually exists and for a time will be known laws(wonder if they will last as long). As to punishment in the US it is determined by trial of jurors supposedly equals an equivalent to brethren but selected by parties involved but in other countries laws are passed by religions and enforced by religions and judged by religions. Just because I live in america does not mean I am not aware of How dictator's(Gods of their countries) and religious law work around the world. Yes in the US there is a slight difference between government enforcement, punishment and my say but in several countries around the world there is no difference in God's punishment and their punishment only that they(the government) is God.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Why do you think that Jesus is credible?

Why do you think I think he's credible?

 

[Muslim-UK]

I believe that is patently false. You might as well believe in fairies as believe that.

Please find a practising Jew who agrees the Torah allows for the worship of a man. If you can't do that, then please bring a verse that's relevant from the Torah to support such a notion.

 

[Desert Snake]

Why do you think I think he's credible?

You mean, you were telling christians, what jesus taught, and you dont think he is credible?

 

[Muffled]

Reasonable? Is it reasonable to have to hear differing viewpoints on interpretations of the same text and be told by nearly all of them that you need to accept their ways or "go to hell?" Why would God/Jesus allow such disparity and bickering even among the general "flock" of believers? How many people have received "prophecy" or words from God, or feel that they are following the "true" path God has laid out, and call all the others "pharisees" or something similar? How about you, yourself? I am sure you think yourself correct in your beliefs. You probably feel that many believers are "doing it wrong" yourself. In the end, are you really any better than they are? I can answer that question correctly... can you?


From my perspective, God is garbage. Literally, the word "god" is a waste of breath. Thoughts contemplating "God" are a waste of time. The disparity that religious belief and adherence brings to humanity is not worth the supposed benefits that we're expected to believe only come from religion. Those benefits exist elsewhere, and in plenty, and would, regardless whether religion existed or not. Do you know how I know? Humans are human, first and foremost. We do what we do, regardless how we try to label ourselves or one another. We follow our nature, and that nature can be kind or it can be cruel - the religion or belief set we subscribe to is secondary to our innate desires and drives. This is why you can have nonbelievers who are more kind/compassionate/altruistic than many believers, and why you can have believers who are terrible, cruel people. This is also why some people can pick up "faith" and wear it like a hat, only to discard it and pick another one up later. It is because religion is nothing more than a choice - a choice to try and find bits of yourself within an outside organization. A striving to find like-minds, because there is so many "unlike minds" that discourage us from believing we can fit in.


Aren't you on the same side as clergy who coerce and rape young choir boys? That allegation right there holds the same amount of weight and honesty as yours. If you think otherwise, perhaps you should seek some sort of help.

I believe a differing viewpoint from receiving Jesus as Savior is an incorrect viewpoint.

I believe I know that I speak God's words and therefore they are always correct.

I believe that clearly shows which side you are on.

I believe we are on opposite sides. As a general rule Roman Catholics do not receive Jesus as Lord and Savior.

I believe your argument is spurious and holds no weight at all but it does show how little you know about Christianity.

I believe I already have all the help I need in Jesus.

 

[Desert Snake]

Why do you think I think he's credible?

You mean, you were telling christians, what jesus taught, and you dont think he is credible?

 

[Desert Snake]

Why do you think I think he's credible?

You mean, you were telling christians, what jesus taught, and you dont think he is credible?

 

[Muffled]

Please find a practising Jew who agrees the Torah allows for the worship of a man. If you can't do that, then please bring a verse that's relevant from the Torah to support such a notion.

I believe you are right that a man should not be worshiped. We worship God.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

You mean, you were telling christians, what jesus taught, and you dont think he is credible?

I don't believe he ever actually existed. Nor do I believe Sandor Clegane was real, but I can still say that given his actions, Sansa probably did have every intention of shoving Joffrey off that bridge and sending him to his death.

 

[DavidFirth]

Please find a practising Jew who agrees the Torah allows for the worship of a man. If you can't do that, then please bring a verse that's relevant from the Torah to support such a notion.

Please find a verse from the Torah that confirms Ishmael as the one God chose over Isaac.

Muhammed changed that, didn't he? How convenient for you.