Don't Blame Me For Not Accepting Jesus

[PureX]

This is one of those 'double edged' issues.

It begins with understanding what it even means to state that one "accepts Jesus Christ as their lord and savior". Because this phrase means some very different things to different people. The phrase, itself, is somewhat abstract and symbolic since Jesus does not physically exist in our world and is not physically saving anyone from anything. One is claiming allegiance to an ideal, here, not an actual person. So what IS that ideal?

If we ask 100 Christians what this ideal is, and we press for specifics, we will get a lot of different answers, ranging from the most literal, to the most supernatural, to the most practical, and everything in between. So that if we are rejecting the ideal of "Jesus Christ as our lord and savior" it may be our own fault, as we've never bothered to determine for ourselves what that ideal might really mean: how it could make sense, to us, before we rejected it as being nonsensical.

On the other hand, anytime I've ever been asked this question it was being asked by someone who was intent on standing in judgment of me. Someone who believed that his/her interpretation of the Jesus story is the only possible correct interpretation and so they were seeking either my agreement, or presuming my error. And either way they were not really interested in me, or in what I believed. So I've never seen any logical reason to bother answering them just so they can pass their own self-righteous judgment on me.

 

[columbus]

Please find a practising Jew who agrees the Torah allows for the worship of a man. If you can't do that, then please bring a verse that's relevant from the Torah to support such a notion.

Please find a verse from the Torah that confirms Ishmael as the one God chose over Isaac.

You are dodging his point in a big and transparent way.
Anybody who reads the Torah can see that the Christian premise that Jesus is God, or even Messiah, is totally unsupported.
Anathema even. The biggest of sins.

The Christians set up a new God, half human, and started worshipping Him. From Moses to Jesus' Jewish contemporaries, almost everyone around them would have been horrified by the concept. That's why the Jews of the day were so resistant.

Muhammed changed that, didn't he? How convenient for you.

Islam is far closer to the God of Abraham than Christianity. The premise that Jesus is a prophet is perfectly reasonable. But the Christians, apparently led by Paul who never even met Jesus, are the ones who really changed the fundamentals of the Abrahamic God and religion. It's not even monotheistic.

Anyone who reads the Bible can see this for themselves.
Tom

 

[Sleeppy]

Jesus himself said that God must first draw a person to him, before that person can accept, or even "see" him. -- The self-righteous are very violent.

 

[Skwim]

No one is blaming you.

Didn't say they were.

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[Desert Snake]

New member: i'm having difficulty with faith, having doubts


Pastor: get out of my church

 

[Skwim]

I believe that is a nice try but I believe the information you have received is quite reasonable and your rejection of it unreasonable and therefore it is an active choice not a mental aberration. So you most certainly deserve to go to hell.

Just in case you need a new perspective on it, God is good and everything else is bad. When You choose Jesus, you choose good and when you refuse Jesus you choose evil.

In light of Jesus' remark where he makes the distinction between himself and god, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” by highlighting the above I hope you recognize the logical fallacy you've committed here. Not that it matters to me, but it might help in cleaning up your thinking.

That means even though you don't do it yourself you are on the same side as those who rape and kill five year old girls.

My, aren't you a sweetheart. I don't buy into the guilt trip Christians like to lay on all those who don't join their fraternity. So I'm no better than those who rape and kill five year old girls. Whose your mentor, Donald Trump?

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[Skwim]

I'm not here to convince anyone of anything.

Okey Dokey.

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[PureX]

New member: i'm having difficulty with faith, having doubts


Pastor: get out of my church

This, in my opinion, is the greatest sin that religious Christianity commits: promoting the lie that "true faith" is the elimination of doubt. That's authoritarianism masquerading as faith, plain and simple. And it's a heinous abuse of people's trust.

 

[Skwim]

I've said this before, Skwim. To me, this is a strange thread.

Took a look around and couldn't find you saying this at all about my post here. Might want to first lube your thinking gears. And actually, I don't find it strange at all. People going off on all kinds of tangents with few of them actually addressing the issue raised in the OP isn't all that uncommon.

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[A Vestigial Mote]

I believe a differing viewpoint from receiving Jesus as Savior is an incorrect viewpoint.

Noted, I and many, many others (a greater portion of humans than do agree with you, in fact) simply do not agree with this.

I believe I know that I speak God's words and therefore they are always correct.

This is quite hilarious.

I believe that clearly shows which side you are on.

I have no side. Both "God" and "Satan" can go stuff themselves. Do you hear that God? Do you hear that Satan? Er... wait... they'd have to exist first. Nevermind.

I believe we are on opposite sides. As a general rule Roman Catholics do not receive Jesus as Lord and Savior.

Calling us "opposites" is like calling "apple" the opposite of "orange". In other words, it makes absolutely no sense, and the fact that you think things are so cut-and-dry is ridiculous... as in, deserving of ridicule. Kind of like I am doing right now.

I believe your argument is spurious and holds no weight at all but it does show how little you know about Christianity.

Believe me, I know all I care to about Christianity. I have attended far more church services than I ever would have cared to. Probably numbering over a hundred by now. Don't worry - you won't see me in church any time soon. And how can my comments be "spurious?" When I say I feel God is a useless concept, I fully mean it. I am being authentic and true to my beliefs. I am not pretending. I could say it all day long and it would be honesty every time. God isn't there. God is a man-made concept and nothing more. The idea of God is merely trumped up individual confusion and does a whole lot to separate humanity. God can and will do nothing to stop my reviling Him, guaranteed. I should know, I have been doing it quite a while now. But what does it matter if one assails the empty air? It doesn't, plain and simple.

I believe I already have all the help I need in Jesus.

Then get him on relieving you of some of these arrogantly pious ideas you have. It doesn't suit you. Mostly because it doesn't suit anyone.

 

[Kenny]

In light of Jesus' remark where he makes the distinction between himself and god, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” by highlighting the above I hope you recognize the logical fallacy you've committed here. Not that it matters to me, but it might help in cleaning up your thinking.

.

hahahahaHA... And you said Christians Cherry pick.

And out of context, even!

 

[Skwim]

hahahahaHA... And you said Christians Cherry pick.

And out of context, even!

Jesus makes a distinction between himself and god. So tell me what difference the context would make to make the implication of his statement untrue.

.

 

[DavidFirth]

You are dodging his point in a big and transparent way.
Anybody who reads the Torah can see that the Christian premise that Jesus is God, or even Messiah, is totally unsupported.
Anathema even. The biggest of sins.

The Christians set up a new God, half human, and started worshipping Him. From Moses to Jesus' Jewish contemporaries, almost everyone around them would have been horrified by the concept. That's why the Jews of the day were so resistant.


Islam is far closer to the God of Abraham than Christianity. The premise that Jesus is a prophet is perfectly reasonable. But the Christians, apparently led by Paul who never even met Jesus, are the ones who really changed the fundamentals of the Abrahamic God and religion. It's not even monotheistic.

Anyone who reads the Bible can see this for themselves.
Tom

Wow, you talk about confused persons. You are about as confused as I have seen. I do hope you are seeking truth and that you will find it.

 

[Kenny]

Jesus makes a distinction between himself and god. So tell me what difference the context would make to make the implication of his statement untrue.

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On earth there was a distinction. Like when you were just a fetus... same person but different distinction.

On a side note.. .I MAY have misunderstood your application

I'm not God!

 

[columbus]

Wow, you talk about confused persons. You are about as confused as I have seen. I do hope you are seeking truth and that you will find it.

Confused in what way?
I am simply trying to get to get across the clear meaning of the Bible, which I have read and studied.
Tom

 

[DavidFirth]

Jesus makes a distinction between himself and god. So tell me what difference the context would make to make the implication of his statement untrue.

.

Hebrews 1 explains it well:

3The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.

 

[DavidFirth]

Confused in what way?
I am simply trying to get to get across the clear meaning of the Bible, which I have read and studied.
Tom

The Spirit reveals truth. There is no truth in the flesh.

 

[columbus]

The Spirit reveals truth. There is no truth in the flesh.

What the Spirit tells me is not to put too much Faith in the writings and ideas of humans. They are very fallible.
That includes Scriptures and the people who claim to know what they really mean. I think Jesus would have agreed with me on that.
Tom

 

[DavidFirth]

What the Spirit tells me is not to put too much Faith in the writings and ideas of humans. They are very fallible.
That includes Scriptures and the people who claim to know what they really mean. I think Jesus would have agreed with me on that.
Tom

You do not know the Spirit. The Spirit inspired the scriptures therefore I know that you do not know Him.

 

[columbus]

You do not know the Spirit. The Spirit inspired the scriptures therefore I know that you do not know Him.

All Scriptures?
Or just the ones you happen to find convenient because they support your self-esteem?
Tom