Don't Blame Me For Not Accepting Jesus

[Beth Stitely]

According to Christian theology if I don't accept Jesus as my savior I will never make it into heaven and could likely end up in hell.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
(John 3:16)​

Christians say that if I don't accept Jesus as my savior it's my own darn fault. Okay, but consider. Why do we accept something or reject it? We do so because we're convinced it makes sense. I accept the fact that evolution is true because to me it makes sense. I reject creationism because to me it doesn't make sense. So, if I'm to accept Jesus as my savior, above all else it has to make sense that I do so. There has to be some kind of compelling rational, and without this rational it would be unreasonable to agree to the proposition. I certainly wouldn't find believing in faeries and gnomes to be sensible if the only reason given is that this is what many people down through the ages have believed. People down through the ages also believed the earth was flat. I would need a more compelling rational to accept faeries and gnomes as a reasonable belief.

So, whose fault is it that I don't? Is it my fault that my mind has been so constructed that it rejects the argument of "people down through the ages have believed"? Hardly. Other than perhaps exercising the mind to work a bit better, none of us chooses how it accepts or rejects information. So what I believe is dependent on the information making its impression on my mind. I don't choose how information X is going to be processed. This process is an automatic one. Perhaps fear is a huge motivating factor within the processing operation. No matter how outlandish a proposition may be, scare me enough and I'll believe it. Or perhaps reason is thee controlling factor within the processing operation. Proposition XYZ has to make sense or I'll reject it. The thing is, we don't choose how these factors weigh in on our conclusions. Just as one doesn't choose what they find attractive about other people. What we find attractive and don't find attractive depends on how our minds have been configured. And this configuration is not something we choose. In effect, our mind is compelled to operate in a certain manner.

Therefore, we can't be held responsible for how our mind processes information. So, if I'm to find believing in faeries and gnomes sensible, where would the responsibility have to lie? What's left are those influences outside myself. If I'm to believe in faeries and gnomes then someone or something is going to have to persuade those deciding factors in my mind that it makes sense, and it's what I should do. Now, I have very little influence over what kind of evidence or argument I'm presented. It might even be a case of GIGO. If the ICFB, the International Council of Faerie Belief, fails to scare me into believing in faeries and gnomes, that's their fault, not mine. If the ICFB, fails to present a persuasive enough case to accept faeries and gnomes, that's their fault, not mine. And this goes right down to those individual representatives of the ICFB. If my neighbor down the block comes knocking on my door trying to get me to accept faeries and gnomes and fails, it's his fault, not mine. Or, if no one presents any information on faeries and gnomes for me to consider, it isn't my fault either.

So, In as much as I can't help how my mind processes information, and I can't help if the tactics of Christians fail to persuade me that believing in the Son is the way to an everlasting life, why should I perish because of it? If any blame is to be laid it has to be on those presenting, or failing to present, the case for Jesus.

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'But they all alike began to make excuses' Luke 14:18

 

[Skwim]

'But they all alike began to make excuses' Luke 14:18

So, what's your excuse for being a Christian?

.

 

[Beth Stitely]

So, what's your excuse for being a Christian?

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that's an interesting reply...I'm not sure what you're really trying to get at?

 

[Skwim]

that's an interesting reply...I'm not sure what you're really trying to get at?

Well, I explained why I thought I shouldn't be faulted for not accepting Jesus, and by your post

"But they all alike began to make excuses' "​

you imply this explanation amounts to an excuse. So if you're going to consider my reasoning and conclusion to be an excuse, I simply want to know what your excuse is for concluding that Christianity is the right and proper belief.

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[Beth Stitely]

Well, I explained why I thought I shouldn't be faulted for not accepting Jesus, and by your post

"But they all alike began to make excuses' "​

you imply this explanation amounts to an excuse. So if you're going to consider my reasoning and conclusion to be an excuse, I simply want to know what your excuse is for concluding that Christianity is the right and proper belief.

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While I find your reasoning an excuse, I also think that your curiosity about Jesus is a good thing. In fact, after Jesus tells the parable of the Great Feast (where the verse I quoted to you comes from), he goes on to say that one should not make a hasty decision to follow Him because while it will cost you nothing to begin the Christian life, it will cost you everything to continue in it.
I get the feeling that you have been "around the block" so to speak with debating Christians. You say none of it makes sense to you, yet many understand it. I don't know how familiar you are with scripture, but clearly it tells us that intellectual assent is not the means by which to know God. (1 Cor 1:20-21) Paul tells us that God is wise enough not to let human wisdom (sophia) be the key to knowing God. So basically you're going about it the wrong way. I hope you don't find my response offensive but will give it some serious consideration.

 

[Skwim]

While I find your reasoning an excuse, I also think that your curiosity about Jesus is a good thing. In fact, after Jesus tells the parable of the Great Feast (where the verse I quoted to you comes from), he goes on to say that one should not make a hasty decision to follow Him because while it will cost you nothing to begin the Christian life, it will cost you everything to continue in it.
I get the feeling that you have been "around the block" so to speak with debating Christians. You say none of it makes sense to you, yet many understand it. I don't know how familiar you are with scripture, but clearly it tells us that intellectual assent is not the means by which to know God. (1 Cor 1:20-21) Paul tells us that God is wise enough not to let human wisdom (sophia) be the key to knowing God. So basically you're going about it the wrong way. I hope you don't find my response offensive but will give it some serious consideration.

In other words, your reasoning doesn't amount to an excuse, but mine does. A biased self-serving conclusion to say the least. Reminds me of the kid who says, "when you say you're good at math it's just bragging, but when I say I'm a good at spelling it's telling the truth."

And, just where did I say that "none of it makes sense to [me]"? I'd hate to think you're simply making up stuff to make a point.

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[Kenny]

In other words, your reasoning doesn't amount to an excuse, but mine does.

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Excuse:a reason or explanation put forward to defend or justify a fault or offense:

I don't think I have ever heard that an "excuse" is when you do what was asked of you or when you agree with the person in question.

Is this a new definition?

 

[Skwim]

Excuse:a reason or explanation put forward to defend or justify a fault or offense:

I agree. And I don't believe my position and the reasoning behind it is faulty or offensive, which is why her use of "excuse" to characterize them is off base.
.

 

[dawny0826]

According to Christian theology if I don't accept Jesus as my savior I will never make it into heaven and could likely end up in hell.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
(John 3:16)​

Christians say that if I don't accept Jesus as my savior it's my own darn fault. Okay, but consider. Why do we accept something or reject it? We do so because we're convinced it makes sense. I accept the fact that evolution is true because to me it makes sense. I reject creationism because to me it doesn't make sense. So, if I'm to accept Jesus as my savior, above all else it has to make sense that I do so. There has to be some kind of compelling rational, and without this rational it would be unreasonable to agree to the proposition. I certainly wouldn't find believing in faeries and gnomes to be sensible if the only reason given is that this is what many people down through the ages have believed. People down through the ages also believed the earth was flat. I would need a more compelling rational to accept faeries and gnomes as a reasonable belief.

So, whose fault is it that I don't? Is it my fault that my mind has been so constructed that it rejects the argument of "people down through the ages have believed"? Hardly. Other than perhaps exercising the mind to work a bit better, none of us chooses how it accepts or rejects information. So what I believe is dependent on the information making its impression on my mind. I don't choose how information X is going to be processed. This process is an automatic one. Perhaps fear is a huge motivating factor within the processing operation. No matter how outlandish a proposition may be, scare me enough and I'll believe it. Or perhaps reason is thee controlling factor within the processing operation. Proposition XYZ has to make sense or I'll reject it. The thing is, we don't choose how these factors weigh in on our conclusions. Just as one doesn't choose what they find attractive about other people. What we find attractive and don't find attractive depends on how our minds have been configured. And this configuration is not something we choose. In effect, our mind is compelled to operate in a certain manner.

Therefore, we can't be held responsible for how our mind processes information. So, if I'm to find believing in faeries and gnomes sensible, where would the responsibility have to lie? What's left are those influences outside myself. If I'm to believe in faeries and gnomes then someone or something is going to have to persuade those deciding factors in my mind that it makes sense, and it's what I should do. Now, I have very little influence over what kind of evidence or argument I'm presented. It might even be a case of GIGO. If the ICFB, the International Council of Faerie Belief, fails to scare me into believing in faeries and gnomes, that's their fault, not mine. If the ICFB, fails to present a persuasive enough case to accept faeries and gnomes, that's their fault, not mine. And this goes right down to those individual representatives of the ICFB. If my neighbor down the block comes knocking on my door trying to get me to accept faeries and gnomes and fails, it's his fault, not mine. Or, if no one presents any information on faeries and gnomes for me to consider, it isn't my fault either.

So, In as much as I can't help how my mind processes information, and I can't help if the tactics of Christians fail to persuade me that believing in the Son is the way to an everlasting life, why should I perish because of it? If any blame is to be laid it has to be on those presenting, or failing to present, the case for Jesus.

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There's no fault in rejecting that which is illogical and unbelievable to you.

No one is at fault for your inability to believe in Jesus as your Savior.

Why entertain the notion of perishing in the afterlife? Do you believe in the possibility of hell?

 

[Skwim]

There's no fault in rejecting that which is illogical and unbelievable to you.

No one is at fault for your inability to believe in Jesus as your Savior.

Why entertain the notion of perishing in the afterlife? Do you believe in the possibility of hell?

I don't. However, it's the message Christians are trying to sell: reject Jesus and you'll miss out on heaven and likely end up in hell. But it's an illogical product and therefore not worth paying any attention to. I don't know where you stand theologically, but if you were considering Christianity wouldn't you like to be aware of this little piece of news? God shouldn't be holding you accountable for your decision to reject Jesus, and if he does, is he really someone deserving your love, worship and adoration, AND 20 bucks every Sunday?

.

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[Kenny]

I don't. However, it's the message Christians are trying to sell: reject Jesus and you'll miss out on heaven and end up in hell.
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Reminds me of my daddy saying, "Don't play with fire or you will get burnt". He was just trying to sell a message.

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But it's an illogical product and therefore not worth paying any attention to.
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LOL For someone who doesn't want to pay attention, you sure devote a lot of time on it.

I don't know where you stand theologically, but if you were considering Christianity wouldn't you like to be aware of this little piece of news? God shouldn't be holding you accountable for your decision to reject Jesus,
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LOL YUP! Jails are filled with people who say they shouldn't be accountable for rejecting laws.

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and if he does, is he really someone deserving your love, worship and adoration,
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Because of the cross... yes!


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AND 20 bucks every Sunday?

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You aren't required to give it... and if I were you, I wouldn't. He doesn't need your 20

 

[Desert Snake]

I agree. And I don't believe my position and the reasoning behind it is faulty or offensive, which is why her use of "excuse" to characterize them is off base.
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Don't get "stranger on the internet talking to me about religion", mixed up with

"This person cares if I accept jesus"

The bible instructs to disciple...once we've done that, it's your problem.

My threads on HELL's etc, are instructional, not preaching.

 

[Skwim]

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LOL For someone who doesn't want to pay attention, you sure devote a lot of time on it.

Just think of me as a secular savior trying to protect the needy and gullible.

LOL YUP! Jails are filled with people who say they shouldn't be accountable for rejecting laws.

Unjust laws such as those served up in the Bible and from the pulpit? I don't think so. By and large man-made laws are far more reasonable and just. Their penalties are almost always justified by the gravity of the crime.

Because of the cross... yes!

Okey Dokey.

You aren't required to give it... and if I were you, I wouldn't.

No worry there.

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[Kenny]

Just think of me as a secular savior trying to protect the needy and gullible.
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Blind leading the blind

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Unjust laws such as those served up in the Bible and from the pulpit? I don't think so. By and large man-made laws are far more reasonable and just. Their penalties are almost always justified by the gravity of the crime.
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And yet we see people complaining about those laws all the time. Some want less and others want more.
then you have the rich better off than the poor and if you know someone... you are treated favorably.

At least God's are steady and His mercy is forever towards us.. it's a gift

 

[dawny0826]

I don't. However, it's the message Christians are trying to sell: reject Jesus and you'll miss out on heaven and likely end up in hell. But it's an illogical product and therefore not worth paying any attention to. I don't know where you stand theologically, but if you were considering Christianity wouldn't you like to be aware of this little piece of news? God shouldn't be holding you accountable for your decision to reject Jesus, and if he does, is he really someone deserving your love, worship and adoration, AND 20 bucks every Sunday?

.

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No arguments.

To your point, it certainly wasn't the fire and brimstone spiel that brought me to Christ.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

while it will cost you nothing to begin the Christian life, it will cost you everything to continue in it.

Have you got something a little more in my price range?

 

[Skwim]

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And yet we see people complaining about those laws all the time. Some want less and others want more.
then you have the rich better off than the poor and if you know someone... you are treated favorably.

Whining is just part of the human nature your god supposedly left us with.

At least God's are steady and His mercy is forever towards us.. it's a gift

Yeah, his mercy is forever towards us.. it's a gift

Exodus 12:29
And it came to pass, that at midnight the LORD smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon; and all the firstborn of cattle.

2 Samuel 12:14, 18
14Howbeit, because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die.
18And it came to pass on the seventh day, that the child died.

2 Kings 2:23-24
23 Elisha went from that city to Bethel. He was walking up the hill to the city, and some boys were coming down out of the city. They began making fun of him. They said, “Go away, you bald-headed man! Go away, you bald-headed man!”
24 Elisha looked back and saw them. He asked the Lord to cause bad things to happen to them. Then two bears came out of the forest and attacked the boys. There were 42 boys ripped apart by the bears.
​

Thanks but no thanks. I'll opt for Odin or Thor before I vote for Jehovah. As I understand them, at least they were just.

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​

 

[Kenny]

Whining is just part of the human nature your god supposedly left us with.

Victim mentality.

Yeah, his mercy is forever towards us.. it's a gift

Exodus 12:29
And it came to pass, that at midnight the LORD smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon; and all the firstborn of cattle.

2 Samuel 12:14, 18
14Howbeit, because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die.
18And it came to pass on the seventh day, that the child died.

2 Kings 2:23-24
23 Elisha went from that city to Bethel. He was walking up the hill to the city, and some boys were coming down out of the city. They began making fun of him. They said, “Go away, you bald-headed man! Go away, you bald-headed man!”
24 Elisha looked back and saw them. He asked the Lord to cause bad things to happen to them. Then two bears came out of the forest and attacked the boys. There were 42 boys ripped apart by the bears.
​

Thanks but no thanks. I'll opt for Odin or Thor before I vote for Jehovah. As I understand them, at least they were just.

.

​

LOL... OK, you cherry picked those few scriptures on the whole story of Egypt. Makes me wonder if your read the whole thing.

What stopped them from sacrificing the Lamb for mercy? You know, the Lamb which represents Jesus?

As fa as the other stories... what did you say about whining?

It is always interesting how you resort to the OT that refers to the Jews and forget there is a New One for the world but that puts your investment of time out of business..

 

[Kenny]

Have you got something a little more in my price range?

Reminds me of God asking Adam... "What do you want me to give you?"

He replied, "I would like a wife that is understanding, loving, supportive, giving and always smiles".

"WOW" God said. "That's going to cost you an arm and a leg".

Adam exclaimed, "What can I have for a rib?"

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Reminds me of God asking Adam... "What do you want me to give you?"

He replied, "I would like a wife that is understanding, loving, supportive, giving and always smiles".

"WOW" God said. "That's going to cost you an arm and a leg".

Adam exclaimed, "What can I have for a rib?"

Good one. Here's another you might like:

A man walking along a California beach was deep in prayer. Suddenly, he cried out loud, “Lord, grant me one wish." The sky clouded above his head and in a booming voice the Lord said, "Because you have tried to be faithful to me in all ways, I will grant you one wish."

The man said, "Build a bridge to Hawaii so I can drive over anytime I want."

The Lord said, "Your request is very materialistic. Think of the enormous challenges for that kind of undertaking. The supports required to reach the bottom of the Pacific! The concrete and steel it would take! I can do it, but it is hard for me to justify your desire for worldly things. Take a little more time and think of another wish, a wish you think would honor and glorify me."

The man thought about it for a long time. Finally he said, "Lord, I wish that I could understand women. I want to know how they feel inside, what they are thinking when they give me the silent treatment, why they cry, what they mean when they say 'nothing,' and how I can make a woman truly happy."

The Lord replied, "You want two lanes or four lanes on that bridge?