Double Minded Atheist

[ADigitalArtist]

Again. Not all of the bible is to be taken literal. If you read and understand what Jesus is telling the Jews ( which was his enemy by the way) then you would be able to see that. Its clear as day. Some things are literal and some are metaphorical. Which ones you ask. Read the gospels. Do you know which books are the gospels.

I've read the Bible in its entirety multiple times. I'm quite aware that there are historical and non-historical narrative in it. However, most Christians and Jews looking at the OT find no compelling argument that Genesis was meant to be describing a literal event, rather than a moral story just as the sort Jesus told.

 

[g2perk]

I've read the Bible in its entirety multiple times. I'm quite aware that there are historical and non-historical narrative in it. However, most Christians and Jews looking at the OT find no compelling argument that Genesis was meant to be describing a literal event, rather than a moral story just as the sort Jesus told.

If you know this then what's your point. Do some research on Noahs arc. There is evidence of this event in history.

 

[Kuzcotopia]

If you read and understand what Jesus is telling the Jews ( which was his enemy by the way) then you would be able to see that. Its clear as day. Some things are literal and some are metaphorical.

Let's pin this down.

I believe much of what you're saying is none sense. But let's just pick one thing. . .

Jesus was the enemy of the Jews?

Since you're an expert who can ask condescending questions like "Do you know which books are the gospels," then it would be easy for you to provide the necessary biblical evidence that this is true, please.

If you cannot, then you're talking out your rear and know nothing about the bible. You also cannot be trusted to credibly interpret anything contained within the text, and should spend a lot more time educating yourself in your own religion before trying out a post against atheism.

 

[g2perk]

Let's pin this down.

I believe much of what you're saying is none sense. But let's just pick one thing. . .

Jesus was the enemy of the Jews?

Since you're an expert who can ask condescending questions like "Do you know which books are the gospels," then it would be easy for you to provide the necessary biblical evidence that this is true, please.

If you cannot, then you're talking out your rear and know nothing about the bible. You also cannot be trusted to credibly interpret anything contained within the text, and should spend a lot more time educating yourself in your own religion before trying out a post against atheism.

If you are telling me Jesus was the enemy of the Jews then we have a major problem. And before we go any further we have to get this straight

 

[Kuzcotopia]

If you are telling me Jesus was the enemy of the Jews then we have a major problem. And before we go any further we have to get this straight

I may have misinterpreted what you said. . . But the main reason for that is that, like many things, you're making broad sweeping statements without evidence, then suggesting that no one else understands this but you.

But, still. . . The statement I made is amended as follows:

The Jews were the enemy of Jesus.

According to the mythology, there were a few priests at a specific temple who saw fit to orchestrate a really bad weekend for Jesus.

Saying such a blanket statement like that is ripe for misinterpretation, and it isn't even true.

And maybe I was wrong with my first post, but I still think you're talking out your rear regarding your bible knowledge.

 

[g2perk]

If you are telling me Jesus was the enemy of the Jews then we have a major problem. And before we go any further we have to get this straight

Jesus was killed because of the Jews wrong interpretation of the scriptures. Jesus rebuked the Jews for not knowing the word. For example. One reason that the Jews him was because Jesus said that he would tear down the temple and in 3 days rebuild it.

 

[g2perk]

I may have misinterpreted what you said. . . But the main reason for that is that, like many things, you're making broad sweeping statements without evidence, then suggesting that no one else understands this but you.

But, still. . . The statement I made is amended as follows:

The Jews were the enemy of Jesus.

According to the mythology, there were a few priests at a specific temple who saw fit to orchestrate a really bad weekend for Jesus.

Saying such a blanket statement like that is ripe for misinterpretation, and it isn't even true.

And maybe I was wrong with my first post, but I still think you're talking out your rear regarding your bible knowledge.

I never claimed to know everything but I knew that.

 

[g2perk]

Thank you.


Yes, from the atheist perspective not the Christian's.

No. It wouldn't be a waste of time. For example, I'm an atheist-I don't believe entities meant to be worshiped-exist. I live my life with the help of the spirits and ancestors. I follow The Buddha's law and understanding of rebirth-life/death-cause/effect. I find value in it and it shapes and defines how I see reality.

I don't see that as a waste of my time. Many atheist have things they value whether or not they are religious. From the atheist perspective, it isn't a waste of time.

Can you see that from their perspective? Even if it doesn't make sense to you, can you see how it does to them?

Also...

What if you are incorrect? It doesn't mean you are not saved today. Your experiences are real and so forth. I just find being uncomfortable with uncertainty (the point of The Buddha's teachings, actually) will help a lot. Claiming certainty that god doesn't take into consideration like with anything else, you could be wrong.

Can you see yourself being wrong? If not, how would that matter in this present moment if it were not true? Would that change your relationship with Christ? Why? and how?



That's from your perspective. Not all atheists are materialist just because they don't believe in the Christian god. I believe I have a soul. I believe in spirits. I believe that happiness comes from within not from without. I can't depend on external means-god or not-for my spiritual well-being. The Spirits help me and it's up to me to see the lessons they give.

Also, why would an atheist need to be saved? Again, from his perspective rather than a Christian's.

So you see them as well as talk to them. I'm asking because of curiosity.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

So you see them as well as talk to them. I'm asking because of curiosity.

Yes. I've seen spirits and I do talk to them. For some reason, I don't see them as much anymore. Maybe when you're younger, you're less bias and don't filter out reality as much as you do as an adult. I've experienced them physically though. Almost recently. I can't imagine that there can be one entity or spirit when there are so many that make up a family just as humanity and communion with ourselves/our soul or spirit as well.

Beautiful thing.

 

[Davey]

Viole signature quote: "We carve an idol out of fear, and we call it God (Det sjunde inseglet)"

I don't know about others, but my belief in God is a conscious choice based on faith, not fear. When I trust my deity, I can work on what I can do and trust him to do the things I cannot. I don't know why or how. I don't have to. I just know it works.

 

[g2perk]

Yes. I've seen spirits and I do talk to them. For some reason, I don't see them as much anymore. Maybe when you're younger, you're less bias and don't filter out reality as much as you do as an adult. I've experienced them physically though. Almost recently. I can't imagine that there can be one entity or spirit when there are so many that make up a family just as humanity and communion with ourselves/our soul or spirit as well.

Beautiful thing.

I would think it to be easier to believe in God after encountering spirits. Wow. I think that is very interesting.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I would think it to be easier to believe in God after encountering spirits. Wow. I think that is very interesting.

Hmm. Thank you. Curious. Why would it be easier to believe in god? Knowing there are many spirits is like having an internal family. Then you know each of them individually and even the one's related to you (your ancestors) and know your heritage through them through others. How do you get that by one god?

 

[g2perk]

Hmm. Thank you. Curious. Why would it be easier to believe in god? Knowing there are many spirits is like having an internal family. Then you know each of them individually and even the one's related to you (your ancestors) and know your heritage through them through others. How do you get that by one god?

When one is truly in Christ He sends the Holy Spirit to live in you. The relationship becomes strong and there is an eternal bond. The holy spirit comforts, teaches, and even protects me everyday.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Jesus was killed because of the Jews wrong interpretation of the scriptures. Jesus rebuked the Jews for not knowing the word. For example. One reason that the Jews him was because Jesus said that he would tear down the temple and in 3 days rebuild it.

The Jews didn't like that Jesus was not interpreting his own traditions in the manner that Moses had once done. They sent him to death because of this. The Jews had the right interpretation of scripture as per Moses. Jesus just said that the traditions of Moses are summed up in love god above all and love thy neighbor. He felt the Jews missed the point.

What confuses me is that he followed his traditions yet rebuked them. He said that the Jews put traditions over god.

No Jew I spoke with has done that. Traditions are the mold that help individuals come to god. No one lives in a valcuum. If traditions were not part of Christianity, there'd be no communion and even more so, no practices spread to the gentiles that came from Christ himself. The traditions of Moses came straight from god.

So,

When one is truly in Christ He sends the Holy Spirit to live in you. The relationship becomes strong and there is an eternal bond. The holy spirit comforts, teaches, and even protects me everyday.

I can relate. The Spirits protect me and teach me things. Though, everything comes from within. External things like lighting candles and prayers by motion become what is already within. The Spirits themselves are external, though. I guess it's like the holy spirit outside coming within. However, their protection isn't just spiritual, it's also physical.

Can you feel the physical and literal movement (say a push or a literal sensation of the holy spirit) or is it only in the heart?

edit: ooh. opps. those two were supposed to be separate posts.

 

[g2perk]

The Jews didn't like that Jesus was not interpreting his own traditions in the manner that Moses had once done. They sent him to death because of this. The Jews had the right interpretation of scripture as per Moses. Jesus just said that the traditions of Moses are summed up in love god above all and love thy neighbor. He felt the Jews missed the point.

What confuses me is that he followed his traditions yet rebuked them. He said that the Jews put traditions over god.

No Jew I spoke with has done that. Traditions are the mold that help individuals come to god. No one lives in a valcuum. If traditions were not part of Christianity, there'd be no communion and even more so, no practices spread to the gentiles that came from Christ himself. The traditions of Moses came straight from god.

So,


I can relate. The Spirits protect me and teach me things. Though, everything comes from within. External things like lighting candles and prayers by motion become what is already within. The Spirits themselves are external, though. I guess it's like the holy spirit outside coming within. However, their protection isn't just spiritual, it's also physical.

Can you feel the physical and literal movement (say a push or a literal sensation of the holy spirit) or is it only in the heart?

edit: ooh. opps. those two were supposed to be separate posts.

For the first post. Yes I agree Jesus did rebuke them because they were following the old testament. The whole point of Jesus in the new testament was to do away with the old traditions when it came down to salvation. The Jews( Pharisees) focused on the law and traditions while Jesus focused on grace and love among all people.

I believe traditions to play a part in bringing one closer to God but its not as important as having a relationship with Christ. We are saved by grace through faith.

 

[g2perk]

The Jews didn't like that Jesus was not interpreting his own traditions in the manner that Moses had once done. They sent him to death because of this. The Jews had the right interpretation of scripture as per Moses. Jesus just said that the traditions of Moses are summed up in love god above all and love thy neighbor. He felt the Jews missed the point.

What confuses me is that he followed his traditions yet rebuked them. He said that the Jews put traditions over god.

No Jew I spoke with has done that. Traditions are the mold that help individuals come to god. No one lives in a valcuum. If traditions were not part of Christianity, there'd be no communion and even more so, no practices spread to the gentiles that came from Christ himself. The traditions of Moses came straight from god.

So,


I can relate. The Spirits protect me and teach me things. Though, everything comes from within. External things like lighting candles and prayers by motion become what is already within. The Spirits themselves are external, though. I guess it's like the holy spirit outside coming within. However, their protection isn't just spiritual, it's also physical.

Can you feel the physical and literal movement (say a push or a literal sensation of the holy spirit) or is it only in the heart?

edit: ooh. opps. those two were supposed to be separate posts.

The holy spirit is more like a person who leads you. He does not act physically to any individual but acts through others around you, in order to achieve any goal. The Holy Spirit can also become grieved by the actions on those he indwells.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

If you know this then what's your point. Do some research on Noahs arc. There is evidence of this event in history.

I have done the research. Quite considerable amounts since the flood was a project of mine. The evidence doesn't fit a global flood worldview. And a large number of things we should have seen happen to the world as a result of a global flood didn't. (For example, we still have coral, fragile species dependent on environments Noah couldn't have reached or replicated on his boat, fragile ecosystems that predate humans like some cave systems, etc)
Which is why the vast majority of Christians and Jews believe it was a local flood.
Personally I don't believe it was even a local flood, but that it was a story taken and adopted from earlier Sumerian myth, which predates the bible. But all the same. Most Christians and Jews of the world understand that a global flood is a scientifically and historically not possible (and missing the forest for the trees to insist it is) and only a tiny mostly American based number of people (AiG and ICR among them) actually adopt the literalist world view.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

For the first post. Yes I agree Jesus did rebuke them because they were following the old testament. The whole point of Jesus in the new testament was to do away with the old traditions when it came down to salvation. The Jews( Pharisees) focused on the law and traditions while Jesus focused on grace and love among all people.

I believe traditions to play a part in bringing one closer to God but its not as important as having a relationship with Christ. We are saved by grace through faith.

If traditions bring a person closer to god, it is important just as the relationship itself.

A technical error: The Jews aren't the pharisee. The pharisee are Romans. The Jews gave Jesus to Harold, I think that's his name, a Roman pharisee for Jesus to be crucified. Harold denied the charge and asked what Christ did wrong. Then, out of peer pressure and duty, he crucified Jesus against his own decision.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

The holy spirit is more like a person who leads you. He does not act physically to any individual but acts through others around you, in order to achieve any goal. The Holy Spirit can also become grieved by the actions on those he indwells.

Interesting. I experienced the Holy Spirit but only through Church sacraments. Without the sacraments, I experienced no spirit. I don't know how a spirit described in that way can be grieved unless you are speaking of it as a person?

 

[g2perk]

If traditions bring a person closer to god, it is important just as the relationship itself.

A technical error: The Jews aren't the pharisee. The pharisee are Romans. The Jews gave Jesus to Harold, I think that's his name, a Roman pharisee for Jesus to be crucified. Harold denied the charge and asked what Christ did wrong. Then, out of peer pressure and duty, he crucified Jesus against his own decision.

The Pharisees were Jewish leaders in the first century AD.


Tradition only works for God if the relationship is put first. Anybody can light candles and attend church but only those with relationship receives the blessings. Churches today are full of traditional church goers but not all are full with the Holy Spirit.