FranklinMichaelV.3
Well-Known Member
Maybe photons are just really shy and act weird when they know someone is watching....
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Double Slit Experiment
- Thread starter atanu
- Start date
Well, that is a bit different. Usually you have this stroboscopic illusion when you watch a movie of a car moving. It is due to the discretization of the image in different photograms. You see one photogram and the next is when the wheel has performed almost, but not quite, a full round. You would have the impression that the movement is reversed.
The Everett interprtation of quantum mechanics is quite popular amongs scientists. The idea is that when we make an observation, we do not affect the physics whatsoever. That would introduce absurdities like consciousness affecting reality and, even worse, an asymmetry in the laws of nature.
The idea is: when we don't observe, the photon is in a superposition of states (slit1 and slit2). When we observe, it is us that go in a superposition of states (slit1 observed, slit2 observed).
So, if I observe the photon going through slit1, there will be another viole who observed it going through slit2. The wavelike character of the photon has been inherited by viole, who is also a wave now.
Viole and the observed photon become entangled, so to speak, and they all run in parallel in a superposition of states, one for each possible entanglement. That happens also in an interaction particle/particle (and particles do not have consciousness, I assume): when they interact they may become entangled. The same happens in an interaction particle/observer.
Nothing weird, lol.
Ciao
- viole
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This thread lead to some interesting discussion on the topic.
Nothing weird?
BTW, are you not saying what George said, albeit in a slightly more sophisticated way, and thereby making it still more mysterious?
Kilgore Trout
Misanthropic Humanist
I totally thought this thread was going to be about something else.
Thanks. I am reading it now. Does Doppel... (name too difficult for me to spell) not participate any more?
Kilgore, you too can be surprised?
Nothing weird?
I don't think so.
George seems to indicate that conscious observation is important. i don't.
What is important is interaction between objects, conscious or not. That is when they link up, so to speak.
Ciao
- viole
You seem to be introducing the quantum decoherence (loss of coherence to environment). This is from David Bohm, who proposed non local hidden variable concept. While agreeing to Everett's explanation, as more plausible, I say that it opens up the observations for more weirdness.
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How can observation (information gathering) be possible without interaction?
Observation is a measurement. A measurement is an interaction. No interaction, and there is nothing to observe or measure.
Dopp hasn't posted in a couple of years.
(My keyboard doesn't do umlauts either.)
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Runewolf1973
Materialism/Animism
Indeed. I believe there is a physical interaction every time we observe or even consciously think about another object...we therefore physically affect that object in some way. This is how distant healing works also. It is a sort of shamanism that I practice. It does not work by "supernatural" means, rather it utilizes those conscious., physical interactons to physically affect the chemistry of the person who I am directing my thoughts or conscious will towards. In a way, I consciously I "tell" or direct those particles (cells/clumps of matter) to move, and they do. This results in the removal of that unwanted energy which was causing the affliction, illness, cancer, etc..to begin with. It is wierd too, but anyone can do it really. Will power, or power of the mind basically, but it works.
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Runewolf1973
Materialism/Animism
Passive interaction, just receiving information, should not effect the process in classical thinking. That's why these results are considered mysterious; observation effects the process.
Like perhaps an infinite number of universes.....That's more plausible than what???
In one universe then, everyone just agrees with everything I say in Religious Forums.
I'm trying to find the wormhole to get there.FranklinMichaelV.3
Well-Known Member
What do you mean classical sense? And I don't know if mysterious would be the right term. Counter-intuitive perhaps, but not really mysterious.
Well, since we are dealing with things on the quantum level here, it does. (A quantum being the minimum amount of any physical entity involved in an interaction.)
Like perhaps an infinite number of universes.....That's more plausible than what???
In one universe then, everyone just agrees with everything I say in Religious Forums.
Ha ha. George are you angry with me?
Actually, the Everett example, which I think is based on quantum Decoherence, replaces the word 'consciousness' with 'environment'. That is nature of physics ... Use aspects that are measurable etc. there is nothing wrong. Actually it was work of David Bohm.
So, the fact that whether a man is watching or cameras are watching, the results are same, but is different from the outcome when there is no watching at all, yet needs explanation. Decoherence rather points to a continuum wherein apparent particles appear to communicate over distance. (And we are also similar discrete objects only).
Alain Aspect's paired photon experiments that show that paired photons that are separated by miles still communicate instantly. The conclusion was: "A pair of entangled photons should be considered as a global, inseparable quantum system". Again how the separated photons communicate is conjecture at best.
Bell test experiments - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Alain has also talked on the Delayed choice experiment, which again is an enigma, whether some prefer to brush it off as 'nothing weird'.
Alain Aspect speaks on John Wheeler's Delayed Choice Experiment on Vimeo
There is surely a challenge to the axiom that the speed of light cannot be surpassed. There is surely indication that the system is one whole.
I expect someone more knowledgable to comment on current state of art knowledge regarding the understanding of the communication aspects in this quantum system.
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Alain has also talked on the Delayed choice experiment, which again is an enigma, whether some prefer to brush it off as 'nothing weird'.
Alain Aspect speaks on John Wheeler's Delayed Choice Experiment on Vimeo
There is surely a challenge to the axiom that the speed of light cannot be surpassed. There is surely indication that the system is one whole.
.
Wheeler short conclusion was:
"Thus one decides the photon shall have come by one route or by both routes after it has already done its travel"
John A. Wheeler
Two other comments from Wheeler are given below.
Quotes by John Archibald Wheeler
It is wrong to thing of that past [ascribed to quantum phenomena] as “already existing” in all detail. The past is all theory. The past has no existence except as it is recorded in the present. By deciding what questions our quantum registering equipment shall put in the present we have an undeniable choice in what we have the right to say about the past.
John Archibald Wheeler
— Some Strangeness in the Proportion, “Beyond the Black Hole”, 1980
No phenomenon is a real phenomenon until it is an observed phenomenon.
John Archibald Wheeler
We cannot help but wonder WHY? though.
It makes me think that maybe the teachings of the ancient seers of India are starting to be discovered, albeit reluctantly, by modern science. Eventually this entire universe may be seen as a plaything of consciousness. Of course, please don't ask me to show the details of the physics to you
. My advaitan beliefs do not come from quantum mechanics but I find it confirming that the 'billiard balls on a billiard table' view of the universe is not all there is.