Of course not but it changes our interpretation of the nature of consciousness. Consciousness is a state of knowing and knowing seems to reside in the q level because of its fancy tricks with space and time dilation.
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Double Slit Experiment
- Thread starter atanu
- Start date
Of course not but it changes our interpretation of the nature of consciousness. Consciousness is a state of knowing and knowing seems to reside in the q level because of its fancy tricks with space and time dilation.
It doesn't matter if you look at the experiment or not - the electron doesn't care if you watch or not when it "decides" to move as a wave or not.
It only matters if you disturb it.
Same goes for the marble, in principle. It doesn't matter if you watch it or not, but it does matter if you switch on the light (which is necessary to be able to watch it) or not. Because all those photons bouncing off the marble before hitting your eyes (or not if you're not watching) do disturb the movement of the marble. But as the marble is big and heavy, the effect of photons hitting it is negligible. But for an electron, it is not negligible at all.
Runewolf1973
Materialism/Animism
Agreed.
Please re-read the portion of the quote you are responding to that I originally bolded, italicized and underlined.
The experiments have to be done in a vacuum cause just about anything will interfere with the particle being tested. Anything may interfere especially if we try to detect it using machinery, since we can't see it with the naked eye, even if we could, naked eye observation would require bouncing light particles of the particle we are trying to detect, that's why the q state collapses. Like trying to detect what a photon is doing but bouncing other photons off it to detect, like when using cameras even.
Here's a short article describing the double-slit experiment:
-- Quantum Theory Demonstrated: Observation Affects Reality
- REHOVOT, Israel, February 26, 1998--One of the most bizarre premises of quantum theory, which has long fascinated philosophers and physicists alike, states that by the very act of watching, the observer affects the observed reality.
In a study reported in the February 26 issue of Nature (Vol. 391, pp. 871-874), researchers at the Weizmann Institute of Science have now conducted a highly controlled experiment demonstrating how a beam of electrons is affected by the act of being observed. The experiment revealed that the greater the amount of "watching," the greater the observer's influence on what actually takes place.
The research team headed by Prof. Mordehai Heiblum, included Ph.D. student Eyal Buks, Dr. Ralph Schuster, Dr. Diana Mahalu and Dr. Vladimir Umansky. The scientists, members of the Condensed Matter Physics Department, work at the Institute's Joseph H. and Belle R. Braun Center for Submicron Research.
When a quantum "observer" is watching Quantum mechanics states that particles can also behave as waves. This can be true for electrons at the submicron level, i.e., at distances measuring less than one micron, or one thousandth of a millimeter. When behaving as waves, they can simultaneously pass through several openings in a barrier and then meet again at the other side of the barrier. This "meeting" is known as interference.
Strange as it may sound, interference can only occur when no one is watching. Once an observer begins to watch the particles going through the openings, the picture changes dramatically: if a particle can be seen going through one opening, then it's clear it didn't go through another. In other words, when under observation, electrons are being "forced" to behave like particles and not like waves. Thus the mere act of observation affects the experimental findings.
To demonstrate this, Weizmann Institute researchers built a tiny device measuring less than one micron in size, which had a barrier with two openings. They then sent a current of electrons towards the barrier. The "observer" in this experiment wasn't human. Institute scientists used for this purpose a tiny but sophisticated electronic detector that can spot passing electrons. The quantum "observer's" capacity to detect electrons could be altered by changing its electrical conductivity, or the strength of the current passing through it.
Apart from "observing," or detecting, the electrons, the detector had no effect on the current. Yet the scientists found that the very presence of the detector-"observer" near one of the openings caused changes in the interference pattern of the electron waves passing through the openings of the barrier. In fact, this effect was dependent on the "amount" of the observation: when the "observer's" capacity to detect electrons increased, in other words, when the level of the observation went up, the interference weakened; in contrast, when its capacity to detect electrons was reduced, in other words, when the observation slackened, the interference increased.
Thus, by controlling the properties of the quantum observer the scientists managed to control the extent of its influence on the electrons' behavior. The theoretical basis for this phenomenon was developed several years ago by a number of physicists, including Dr. Adi Stern and Prof. Yoseph Imry of the Weizmann Institute of Science, together with Prof. Yakir Aharonov of Tel Aviv University. The new experimental work was initiated following discussions with Weizmann Institute's Prof. Shmuel Gurvitz, and its results have already attracted the interest of theoretical physicists around the world and are being studied, among others, by Prof. Yehoshua Levinson of the Weizmann Institute.
The detector was a passive device if you note.
-- Quantum Theory Demonstrated: Observation Affects Reality
- REHOVOT, Israel, February 26, 1998--One of the most bizarre premises of quantum theory, which has long fascinated philosophers and physicists alike, states that by the very act of watching, the observer affects the observed reality.
In a study reported in the February 26 issue of Nature (Vol. 391, pp. 871-874), researchers at the Weizmann Institute of Science have now conducted a highly controlled experiment demonstrating how a beam of electrons is affected by the act of being observed. The experiment revealed that the greater the amount of "watching," the greater the observer's influence on what actually takes place.
The research team headed by Prof. Mordehai Heiblum, included Ph.D. student Eyal Buks, Dr. Ralph Schuster, Dr. Diana Mahalu and Dr. Vladimir Umansky. The scientists, members of the Condensed Matter Physics Department, work at the Institute's Joseph H. and Belle R. Braun Center for Submicron Research.
When a quantum "observer" is watching Quantum mechanics states that particles can also behave as waves. This can be true for electrons at the submicron level, i.e., at distances measuring less than one micron, or one thousandth of a millimeter. When behaving as waves, they can simultaneously pass through several openings in a barrier and then meet again at the other side of the barrier. This "meeting" is known as interference.
Strange as it may sound, interference can only occur when no one is watching. Once an observer begins to watch the particles going through the openings, the picture changes dramatically: if a particle can be seen going through one opening, then it's clear it didn't go through another. In other words, when under observation, electrons are being "forced" to behave like particles and not like waves. Thus the mere act of observation affects the experimental findings.
To demonstrate this, Weizmann Institute researchers built a tiny device measuring less than one micron in size, which had a barrier with two openings. They then sent a current of electrons towards the barrier. The "observer" in this experiment wasn't human. Institute scientists used for this purpose a tiny but sophisticated electronic detector that can spot passing electrons. The quantum "observer's" capacity to detect electrons could be altered by changing its electrical conductivity, or the strength of the current passing through it.
Apart from "observing," or detecting, the electrons, the detector had no effect on the current. Yet the scientists found that the very presence of the detector-"observer" near one of the openings caused changes in the interference pattern of the electron waves passing through the openings of the barrier. In fact, this effect was dependent on the "amount" of the observation: when the "observer's" capacity to detect electrons increased, in other words, when the level of the observation went up, the interference weakened; in contrast, when its capacity to detect electrons was reduced, in other words, when the observation slackened, the interference increased.
Thus, by controlling the properties of the quantum observer the scientists managed to control the extent of its influence on the electrons' behavior. The theoretical basis for this phenomenon was developed several years ago by a number of physicists, including Dr. Adi Stern and Prof. Yoseph Imry of the Weizmann Institute of Science, together with Prof. Yakir Aharonov of Tel Aviv University. The new experimental work was initiated following discussions with Weizmann Institute's Prof. Shmuel Gurvitz, and its results have already attracted the interest of theoretical physicists around the world and are being studied, among others, by Prof. Yehoshua Levinson of the Weizmann Institute.
The detector was a passive device if you note.
Passive detection-observation affects reality. THAT is the mystery here as it is counter-intuitive to our conditioned view of the world.
FranklinMichaelV.3
Well-Known Member
I thought why everyone was pointing is that it's only passive from a macro viewpoint. Ok the micro due to photons and the like interaction it's not.
It doesn't. QM computer physicists have already been able to observe the q state and predict it using passive type measuring that doesn't effect the q state. They can even change the parameters mid process to fix quantum decoherence, and still change or predict the outcome.
That may be true but it still doesn't explain why the double-slit experiment does what it does.
No, they are saying there is no micro interaction. The experiment would be easily explained away if there was any interaction.
No we don't have an explanation for why or how it does what it does because we don't know enough about how things act when space and time are not a factor. If anything we do create our reality by physically changing it, there has to be some interaction for it to happen. Just looking at the stuff hasn't been enough.
The "observer" was a mechanic device clearly compromising the experiment. As soon as it got to the slit the wave function collapses due to the device. No mystery there.
It seems to have been enough in the double-slit experiment.
How is that possible when we can't even see it with the naked eye?
The experiment would have been pointless with an interfering detector. Those scientists I think would have seen such an obvious flaw and the fame of the experiment would never have gotten out of the starting block.
So we use passive detectors.
brokensymmetry
ground state
Great, now I'm going to notice eye floaters all day. It's almost as if they mysteriously appear when I choose to measure them...
I stand by, just looking at it doesn't make a difference. It takes a detector. Why do you think only the detector caused the issue while looking at the slits/detector? We could turn the thing off and continue looking at it and the wave will continue until the back screen interferes.