Doubt?

[S-word]

I actually did jump out of a plane once (only 3000 feet). No religious contemplation entered my mind at all, let alone an urge to appeal to a deity I've never believed in. I was taught in the half-day preparatory course that when you jump, you're supposed to say "one-one thousand, two-one thousand, three one-thousand CHECK one thousand, CHECK CANOPY!" They went over it again and again and again and I was like "Come ON - that's so not hard to remember! I've got it, already!" Then when the moment came I jumped out of the plane and went "One one-thous... AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA Hoooooollllllllllyyyyyyyyy [eeeexxxxxpppllleeeetttiiiiiivvveee]... canopy!"

Nothing about god.

And if the canopy hadn't have opened, would it have been Ohhh my Gooooood, heeeeelllllllllpppppppp meeeeeeeeeeeee, "Splat"?

 

[Beaudreaux]

It's because people in the movies emulate real life. :yes:

But how did the name of an American Indian leader get associated with jumping out of a plane?

 

[Smoke]

And if the canopy hadn't have opened, would it have been Ohhh my Gooooood, heeeeelllllllllpppppppp meeeeeeeeeeeee, "Splat"?

Even when I believed in God, I wouldn't have been stupid enough to expect god to effect a miraculous rescue in that situation -- and you aren't that stupid, either, as I see from your "Splat." So why do you think anybody in his right mind would ask God for help that nobody in his right mind would expect to be forthcoming?

 

[Beaudreaux]

Even when I believed in God, I wouldn't have been stupid enough to expect god to effect a miraculous rescue in that situation -- and you aren't that stupid, either, as I see from your "Splat." So why do you think anybody in his right mind would ask God for help that nobody in his right mind would expect to be forthcoming?

A better argument for God would have been the shouting his name at the moment of ultimate happiness. Sure, it's a different kind of "splat", but why can't Theists see the best argumentin their arsenal?

 

[S-word]

Even when I believed in God, I wouldn't have been stupid enough to expect god to effect a miraculous rescue in that situation -- and you aren't that stupid, either, as I see from your "Splat." So why do you think anybody in his right mind would ask God for help that nobody in his right mind would expect to be forthcoming?

I believe that the minds of 99.9% of all people who are seconds away from certain death, watching a Semi-trailer bearing down on them, or the ground rushing up to meet them at a rate of knots, are not too analytical. I don't believe that they would ask themselves if God would be able to save them from the predicament in which they have found themselves, but I do believe that a little prayer would flash through their minds before the inevitable, "Splat."

 

[BucephalusBB]

I believe that the minds of 99.9% of all people who are seconds away from certain death, watching a Semi-trailer bearing down on them, or the ground rushing up to meet them at a rate of knots, are not too analytical. I don't believe that they would ask themselves if God would be able to save them from the predicament in which they have found themselves, but I do believe that a little prayer would flash through their minds before the inevitable, "Splat."

But does that make them a believer? Does that mean doubt? Or is it the only thing left?

I am terribly bad in basketball.. But if I am allowed to throw a ball from one point to the other over an entire field for a chance to win 500000 dollar, I will.. I can tell you I will miss. I tried it before and I will probably not even come close.. So I really don't believe I can make the shot. But I will throw..

 

[Smoke]

I believe that the minds of 99.9% of all people who are seconds away from certain death, watching a Semi-trailer bearing down on them, or the ground rushing up to meet them at a rate of knots, are not too analytical. I don't believe that they would ask themselves if God would be able to save them from the predicament in which they have found themselves, but I do believe that a little prayer would flash through their minds before the inevitable, "Splat."

It may not reflect well on me, but I'm almost entirely certain that my last words in that situation would be profane ones -- and would have been when I was a theist, too.

 

[S-word]

But does that make them a believer? Does that mean doubt? Or is it the only thing left?

I am terribly bad in basketball.. But if I am allowed to throw a ball from one point to the other over an entire field for a chance to win 500000 dollar, I will.. I can tell you I will miss. I tried it before and I will probably not even come close.. So I really don't believe I can make the shot. But I will throw..

No, that doesn't make them a believer, but in that final moment when they're staring death in the face, and time seems to stand still as they enter the event horizon of the Black Hole into which they must descend, and their whole life passes before their eyes, I believe there will be a tinge of doubt, as they realise that now, they are going to discover once and for all if their choice to deny God was the right choice.
Is there any resurrection from the seemingly bottomless pit into which they are descending and if there is, does it require belief of the mind which is all that will survive if they were wrong. But if they were right, it will make no difference, and they will never know that they were right, for all thoughts will cease with the death of the body.

 

[BucephalusBB]

I believe that the minds of 99.9% of all people who are seconds away from certain death, watching a Semi-trailer bearing down on them, or the ground rushing up to meet them at a rate of knots, are not too analytical. I don't believe that they would ask themselves if God would be able to save them from the predicament in which they have found themselves, but I do believe that a little prayer would flash through their minds before the inevitable, "Splat."

Btw, little prayer..?
How would I see that? Asking for helping me not to die? Is that allready prayer? Because it has been ages since I repeated the pre-written prayers in church. And that's all I ever did when it comes to prayer..

Also, you have to know that a prayer is probably a daily routine for a theist. (not all of them, bla bla) But not for an atheist. I can imagine that a prayer seems obvious to a theist, but an atheist wouldn't even think of it. It would simply not come to mind in the 3 seconds he's got left to live.

 

[BucephalusBB]

No, that doesn't make them a believer, but in that final moment when they're staring death in the face, and time seems to stand still as they enter the event horizon of the Black Hole into which they must descend, and their whole life passes before their eyes, I believe there will be a tinge of doubt, as they realise that now, they are going to discover once and for all if their choice to deny God was the right choice.

Most atheists I know don't activelly deny God all day long. They have other things to do. Besides, if you do believe in God, you can, appareantly, talk to him all day, pray and ask questions and stuff. An atheist has nothing to do around religion. They probably spend less time around it all..
With that, I (and most atheists I know) don't think that what you think is right, is a choice. I highly doubt that when my end is near, I change my opinion about atheism being a choice, then change my faith to theism and thén start praying..
I mean, I am going to use those few seconds for the flashing of my life. Can't have me missing that...

 

[S-word]

Btw, little prayer..?

How would I see that? Asking for helping me not to die? Is that allready prayer? Because it has been ages since I repeated the pre-written prayers in church. And that's all I ever did when it comes to prayer..

Also, you have to know that a prayer is probably a daily routine for a theist. (not all of them, bla bla) But not for an atheist. I can imagine that a prayer seems obvious to a theist, but an atheist wouldn't even think of it. It would simply not come to mind in the 3 seconds he's got left to live.

Three seconds is a life time to those who enter the event horizin of the Great Abyss.

Atheists pray, and I should know. Have you ever sat beside the bed of a young child with a terminal disease in the last day of her life, and listened to her tell you how her mummy had told her that she was going to heaven to be with her father who had died in Veitnam, and she looks at you and says, I will go to heaven won't I? I've tried to be a good girl.

 

[BucephalusBB]

Three seconds is a life time to those who enter the event horizin of the Great Abyss.

Atheists pray, and I should know. Have you ever sat beside the bed of a young child with a terminal disease in the last day of her life, and listened to her tell you how her mummy had told her that she was going to heaven to be with her father who had died in Veitnam, and she looks at you and says, I will go to heaven won't I? I've tried to be a good girl.

No I have not. But I would tell her that she has been good enough to go whereever she wants. If that's heaven, so be it. I fail to see where that would put me in the theist-situation though..

 

[S-word]

No I have not. But I would tell her that she has been good enough to go whereever she wants. If that's heaven, so be it. I fail to see where that would put me in the theist-situation though..

Have you ever seen a falling star, burn out in the evening sky
Or watched a glowing ember in its struggle not to die?
But to sit beside a little child with a terminal disease
Twas enough to make an Athiest cry and drive him to his knees...S-word.

 

[GiantHouseKey]

Atheists pray, and I should know. Have you ever sat beside the bed of a young child with a terminal disease in the last day of her life, and listened to her tell you how her mummy had told her that she was going to heaven to be with her father who had died in Veitnam, and she looks at you and says, I will go to heaven won't I? I've tried to be a good girl.

That's not the same as praying to be honest. If my daughter had a terminal illness and she asked me whether she was going to heaven, I would rather say 'Sure you are' and know that she's not going anywhere but make her happy in the last moments of her short and painful life than tell her what I believe to be the truth. If a child had only a few days to live I would do ALMOST ANYTHING in my power to ensure that they were the happiest they could be.

I fail to understand how this situation is a valid backing to your ridiculous arguement

GhK.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Have you ever seen a falling star, burn out in the evening sky
Or watched a glowing ember in its struggle not to die?
But to sit beside a little child with a terminal disease
Twas enough to make an Athiest cry and drive him to his knees...S-word.

This just highlights the fact that religion is essentially a comforting lie arising as a result of people's most primitive fears. Not exactly the pinnacle of enlightenment.

 

[linwood]

Well I have my doubts as to whether any Atheist falling from a plane at 20,000ft, would not say one little prayer before they are splatterd over the face of the earth. But that's only my opinion.

Pat ******* Tillman

 

[S-word]

This just highlights the fact that religion is essentially a comforting lie arising as a result of people's most primitive fears. Not exactly the pinnacle of enlightenment.

The Thread is all about doubt and has nothing to do with belief. The Atheist in question being overcome with passion and sorrow for the plight of the child, did say a prayer, which caused him to doubt if he was truely an Atheist. For as it has been said in this Thread, no Atheist true to the cause, would ever say a prayer, and all who ever done so at sometime or other, must also have suffered a tinge of doubt. Go back and read post 51.

 

[ChristineES]

I never considered those last moments before a person dies. I am not sure one can call it doubt (of atheism) if a person right before an accident screams "Oh, God!" When I started the thread I was thinking more along the lines during normal everyday thinking.

 

[Twilight Hue]

There are times when a man/woman of faith will go through periods of doubt. I think it is a normal thing for any person of faith to have some lapses into doubt. I am wondering if the same thing happens to atheists- Do they (you) go through brief periods of the opposite of doubt? Is there a time when you briefly, for a moment to up to a week believe that maybe there is a God? I would like to hear about it if you do, not for any reason except it would be interesting to read. :candle:

Actually I've grown accustomed to direct reality which is indisputable and unarguable truth all around, so all doubt is eliminated through direct experience. Even when unpleasant, experiencing this is comforting in that i can finally wholly experience things as they are, and not what I would like it to be.

Any such "reverse-doubt" arising and occurring is directly related to my own personal desire and want to communicate with a higher being, and the longing to have discussions regarding his/her/it's silence with humankind and the world as well as a slew of other questions, comments, and even rants. I figure my "closet talks" can't hurt. But as long as there remains silence in response, I identify it as "talks with the wind" and can readily and wholeheartedly accept it to be that way, as it is so, and the "doubt" dies down and dissipates back to reality again.

My "reverse-doubt" actually confirms what is undoubtedly true, and am quite happy that it works this way.

 

[BucephalusBB]

Twas enough to make an Athiest cry and drive him to his knees...S-word.

First off all, you are giving me one example, with no source, and you expect you "won"? I happen to see a theist once cursing his own God. By your line of thinking, so will you! And ofcourse, as one does not curse his own God, you must have serious doubt that he is good. Same applies to every other theist around..

With that, you mention knees and crying. What does that have to do with God?

And finally, the little girl thing, I would even ask santa for help in my moment of not thinking, but griefing. That is nothing like doubt. Personally I am not 100% atheist, but I can imagine enough atheists who do not fit your story at all.. You are just making up stories and applying them to an entire group as well.