Draw Muhammad day

[beerisit]

What a load of hypocrisy. But do prove me wrong OK.

Don't like Islam and it's rules, ignore it and don't be mindful of us.

I think you forgot to mention that it was the fault of the victims, because someone on the other side of the planet drew a picture.

 

[England my lionheart]

There is a baby who has been born with verses of the Qur'an and there are children who before they can speak their own mother language they know Arabic and the Qur'an. But let me put you out of your misery, that's just a load of bull right?

And one more thing, Muslims and many non-Muslims alike have not supported the actions of those who have gone to the extreme and dislike the dishonesty of people like you, and still Islam and Muslims are to blame. Wow that's a really twisted way of thinking and reasoning. Good luck in life.

I support the idea behind the original drawings,i don't see them as extreme,not as extreme as say damning or killing Homosexuals,not saying all Muslims do this because there are Gay Muslims but the idea behind the drawing is many people are becomming afraid to criticise not just Islam but the Abrahmic religions in general,least thats how i see it.

 

[839311]

Am I suggesting that it may be more sound and reasonable to convert a Muslim to another belief system then it is to transform an African American to Caucasion.

Thanks Badran

 

[839311]

Problem is most idiots consider themselves well developed people.

I can't emphasize the importance of education enough.

 

[Father Heathen]

what if a bunch of people on FB decided to come up with a "Draw Little Black Sambo Day" as a protest, claiming that they were safe-guarding free speech and the rights of independent property owners? Who would buy that?

We've already established earlier in this thread that comparing race to religion doesn't fly. Nice try, though.

 

[Gharib]

We've already established earlier in this thread that comparing race to religion doesn't fly. Nice try, though.

We also established that any form of freedom of expression which violates others is not allowed, but that doesn't really apply so long as it's you who's doing it to others. You are quick to point that out but not this. Nice try, though.

 

[Gharib]

I support the idea behind the original drawings,i don't see them as extreme,not as extreme as say damning or killing Homosexuals,not saying all Muslims do this because there are Gay Muslims but the idea behind the drawing is many people are becomming afraid to criticise not just Islam but the Abrahmic religions in general,least thats how i see it.

I hope you are right and I hope that people just mind their own business and leave Muslims as well as the other Abrahamic faiths alone.

 

[Gharib]

I think you forgot to mention that it was the fault of the victims, because someone on the other side of the planet drew a picture.

And you too forgot to mention that it was the fault of Muhammed for what ever screwed reasons you guys can think of for making fun out of him and not that of pathetic bigots who have nothing better to do in life other than to insult others for no reason.

 

[Badran]

http://www.foxnews.com/images/304342/0_61_jackson_michael_052806.jpg

My images aren't showing up anymore, just as links. Can someone PM me if they know what Im doing wrong?

Do exactly like you did, but instead of "url" type "img".

That is, right click on the image, copy the image's url, and place it into img quotes.

 

[England my lionheart]

I hope you are right and I hope that people just mind their own business and leave Muslims as well as the other Abrahamic faiths alone.

I think you have misunderstood,i think we should be able to criticise without fear of reprisal especially when yours and the other two religions is an enabler to breach the Universal Declaration of Human rights,i think there should be more.

 

[beenie]

Your argument is with ssainhu on that matter who feels people should leave a country if they don't like the rules.

People can try and change the rules, that's fine by me. You're trying to make an entire religious group conform to your standards. I wish it was that easy to make people see things a different way.

Nice redirect. I was responding to your point, but I guess it's easier to just ignore that and pretend I'm making an accusation.

More redirects. No, I wasn't making personal accusations, but I'm sure you knew that anyways.

Do you always have such an attitude with people who, for the most part, agree with you on this issue?

 

[Gharib]

I think you have misunderstood,i think we should be able to criticise without fear of reprisal especially when yours and the other two religions is an enabler to breach the Universal Declaration of Human rights,i think there should be more.

I didn't say people should not be allowed to criticize, I just don't support the ignorant idea of insulting religious people. What exactly are you criticizing by drawing a dumb childish cartoon and saying that it is the Prophet of Islam. What exactly are you criticizing by that.

 

[Badran]

It can be. We can get specific if we want, but I think that saying its targeted at muslims works just fine.

Answering both questions with 'Muslims' works just fine if we want to keep ignoring, or not acknowledging, or not highlighting in anyway, the actual problem or objectionable thing towards the idea.

Well, yeah, not all muslims reacted like that. But a lot of them did. And a lot of them that didn't still feel very much offended, or think that those cartoonists should be killed. So it is being targeted at muslims, with whatever broad a brush. If we want to get specific, like saying that many muslims didn't have anything to do with it, thats fair. There are plenty of muslims out there who are great people. I think many people understand that, including the people who are participating in the draw muhammad day. If they don't understand that, then they are idiots, for whom pity is appropriate.

But its not just like this, its actually that the vast majority of Muslims didn't do anything at all, and a small minority are the ones who did resort to violence. So the 'broad brush' in this case is so broad that it only takes an idiot, or a dishonest person, not to realize or admit that its obviously not a good idea to mis-aim that much.

And like i said, in any other similar situation people would've agreed quite easily that such generalizations are inappropriate. Somehow its not happening here though.

Fortunately well-developed people understand that not all muslims are like that.

Yet a lot of these 'well-developed people' are fine with generalizing against them in this case, despite realizing what you said.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of people out there, whether its in the U.S., or Italy, or China, or Iran, or anywhere, who have a low level of development. Its up to well-developed people of every stripe to try to keep the idiots under control, especially those of a violent type.

And how they attempt to 'keep the idiots under control' in my view usually gets a lot if not most of them into the idiots group themselves, instead of minimizing or dealing with the idiocy that already exists.

 

[predavlad]

Gross and cynically intentional disrespect for an entire class of people is reprehensible, while suggesting that 'those people' have no right to feel purposely denigrated is patronizing in the extreme.

I feel extremely offended by billboards in America that say "Atheists will burn in hell". Is that not intentional disrespect for an entire class of people, about 20% of the worlds population?

Nobody rushes to defend the feelings of atheists though.

Pick your battles I guess

People can engage in all manner of sophistry about free speech and expression, but most of these people would be appalled by the gratuitous use of intentionally racist and inflammatory speech directed against the Black community. The sole difference is that they are sensitive to racism yet insensitive to, if not supporting of, anti-Muslim bigotry.

There is a small difference between race and religion. Race is not a choice. You cannot choose to be black or white. But you can choose your religion (at least theoretically, I know there are countries where apostasy is severely punished).

I chose to be an atheist, and accepted the mockery from my religious friends. Did I get offended? Of course. But I chose to handle it by not responding. And do you know what happened after a few months? The mockery stopped, and it never started again.

 

[Father Heathen]

We also established that any form of freedom of expression which violates others is not allowed, but that doesn't really apply so long as it's you who's doing it to others. You are quick to point that out but not this. Nice try, though.

But nobody's freedoms or rights are being violated by silly cartoons. If the Mohammad cartoons should be banned because you find them offensive, then the Koran should be banned because I find it offensive. It's only fair, right?

 

[England my lionheart]

I didn't say people should not be allowed to criticize, I just don't support the ignorant idea of insulting religious people. What exactly are you criticizing by drawing a dumb childish cartoon and saying that it is the Prophet of Islam. What exactly are you criticizing by that.

The drawings were not meant to insult,they were meant to make a point and it wasn't just to criticise Islam,it was about countries and people in Europe too afraid to exercise their right to freedom of expression and speech for fear of stepping on some sensitive religious toes,

 

[Father Heathen]

I didn't say people should not be allowed to criticize, I just don't support the ignorant idea of insulting religious people. What exactly are you criticizing by drawing a dumb childish cartoon and saying that it is the Prophet of Islam. What exactly are you criticizing by that.

It's not a criticism but rather a display of defiance. The message is that they won't be told what to do, that they will not surrender their freedoms, and that they won't bow to threats, violence, death and destruction. Do you honesty think they would be drawing Mohammad had they not been given a reason for doing so? They do it precisely because people demand that they don't. The irony is that if people simply ignored them they would've stopped long ago.

 

[beerisit]

And you too forgot to mention that it was the fault of Muhammed for what ever screwed reasons you guys can think of for making fun out of him and not that of pathetic bigots who have nothing better to do in life other than to insult others for no reason.

I think I need someone to explain to me how someone who has been dead for 1500yrs can be insulted. I don't get that.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

It's not a criticism but rather a display of defiance. The message is that they won't be told what to do, that they will not surrender their freedoms, and that they won't bow to threats, violence, death and destruction. Do you honesty think they would be drawing Mohammad had they not been given a reason for doing so? They do it precisely because people demand that they don't. The irony is that if people simply ignored them they would've stopped long ago.

Right - I mean the Baha'i have rules against depictions of Baha'u'llah, but I don't think that anyone has ever been killed by Baha'is because they made a depiction of him. There's also no "Everyone Draw Baha'u'llah" Day. I don't think this is a coincidence.

 

[839311]

Answering both questions with 'Muslims' works just fine if we want to keep ignoring, or not acknowledging, or not highlighting in anyway, the actual problem or objectionable thing towards the idea.

I think this is a matter of opinion. It is muslims who are the ones rioting and murdering others over this. Granted, its a minority of muslims, but its muslims who are doing it. So, targeting muslims is fine in my view, because muslims are the ones that have the problem with it.

So the 'broad brush' in this case is so broad that it only takes an idiot, or a dishonest person, not to realize or admit that its obviously not a good idea to mis-aim that much.

The thing is that they may not be mis-aiming, you'd have to ask them. No doubt many are attacking all muslims, because they may hate muslims or just not know any better. But not all are doing this. Many people realize that its not all muslims who are resorting to violence, but the people who are resorting to violence are muslims. Maybe if we'd talk to them they'd tell us something like, "Im doing this because I want to tell those rioting murderers that I have the freedom to draw what I want." Assuming that all of them are targeting all muslims isn't fair either.

And like i said, in any other similar situation people would've agreed quite easily that such generalizations are inappropriate.

I don't think so. We can say that Christians were burning witches and we'd be justified in doing so. But clearly not all Christians were burning witches. In talking about it we can mention that, and thats perfectly fine, but it doesn't change the fact that it was Christians who were engaged in burning others.

Yet a lot of these 'well-developed people' are fine with generalizing against them in this case, despite realizing what you said.

I don't think that is what people are doing. It seems to me that you may be guilty of the same offense that you charge those people with - your generalizing all of them and saying that they are all targeting all muslims, which I don't think is the case.

And how they attempt to 'keep the idiots under control' in my view usually gets a lot if not most of them into the idiots group themselves, instead of minimizing or dealing with the idiocy that already exists.

I don't think that is the case. People make progress on all kinds of fronts in the war against idiocy. Granted, some may convert to idiocy if their minds are overwhelmed by the flood of dumb ideas, but I think most well-developed people can handle it.

The best way to control them is through the law, and this is often highly effective, especially in countries with an effective punishment system.