Neo Deist
Th.D. & D.Div. h.c.
Preaching to the choir...
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Dying Prior To Jesus
- Thread starter Neo Deist
- Start date
Preaching to the choir...
Neo Deist
Th.D. & D.Div. h.c.
Quoting a biased writing by an anonymous author that was not an eyewitness to Jesus...you don't earn any points for that. Besides, what do YOU do with what is in Revelation? Ignore it?
How can 144,000 be in heaven if they were not taken to heaven?
They are "with" the lamb who is in heaven. Aren't they?
They are "with" the lamb who is in heaven. Aren't they?
Augustus
…
Superman did that by flying around the world very fast and making it spin the wrong way.
Brian Schuh
Well-Known Member
What about all the millions who never heard the gospel before and after Jesus? Israel in ancient times didn't typically do missionary work. Jonah was a rare case.
About what happened to people who died before Jesus, the same thing that happened to people who died after Jesus. For most of the world, the existence of Jesus was not the single most important event of history. In fact, until the last couple centuries most people didn't even know there was such a person as Jesus. And certainly the nature of the universe involving things like what happens when you die, is not in the least affected by Jesus nor anyone else.
About what happened to people who died before Jesus, the same thing that happened to people who died after Jesus. For most of the world, the existence of Jesus was not the single most important event of history. In fact, until the last couple centuries most people didn't even know there was such a person as Jesus. And certainly the nature of the universe involving things like what happens when you die, is not in the least affected by Jesus nor anyone else.
vaguelyhumanoid
Active Member
What about practicing Jews today?
My answer would be that they went to the same place people go now after Jesus' death, to the astral plane and then reincarnation (but the poll wouldn't allow two choices).
Ditto, from my Death experience i perceive an astral holding place for our speck of G-d's essence (Soul)
before rebirth to continue to learn (mature)
Shalom .. Eliab
First Baseman
Retired athlete
Actually, Paul was trained and taught by Jesus Himself. In Acts ALL of the other Apostles accepted Paul as an Apostle and supported His calling from God.
I'm not looking to earn points or puff up my pride. I can be wrong but scripture can't be wrong.
First Baseman
Retired athlete
Refer to John 3:16-18, which is addressed to everyone, both Jew and Gentile.
From that I can assume you can be wrong about scripture can't be wrong.
Please prove scripture can't be wrong.
I think I have proved pretty well that some scripture IS wrong.
I would call the astral plane experience more rich and longer than a 'holding place' experience and can last for some time according to many accounts I respect. The richness of the experience varies by the spiritual level of the individual. In your case it must have seemed like a short holding place because you were being sent back.
Smile
I cannot disagree with your assessment .... ah but time in that 'other' place is a whole new concept ...
and as for "richness of the experience" .. it is still more real and vibrant than what i did yesterday ...
perhaps as it is imprinted rather than simple memory ..
Shalom
First Baseman
Retired athlete
Yes. Thank you. "Scripture" to Jesus meant what God says. I agree that what God says can not be broken. I am saying and other people are telling you and you are ignoring is that some of what is written is not scripture.
I believe 2 Timothy 3:16. Please look up the word "all". It does not and never did mean every. 2 Tim does not say all the words are God's words. It says men were inspired by God.
Do you remember that once God inspired someone TO LIE? I assume you have read the whole Bible.
JustWondering
Jerk
The afterlife is something men created to help them deal with their mortality. In reality, we all go to the grave.
Etritonakin
Well-Known Member
Actually, the 144,000 are specifically those who are the servants of God during the "great tribulation" -in the great tribulation. They are the "remnant of her [the woman's] seed" in the following.
Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
Rev 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
Rev 12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Those who have preached the actual gospel of the kingdom before the tribulation are persecuted fiercely before the tribulation [the woman above] -but are spared experiencing the tribulation by being given a place of safety.
Though the 144,000 serve a specific purpose, many others -a great multitude -will repent during the tribulation and receive immortality at the first resurrection/return of Christ. Some will be alive when Christ returns -but some will have been killed.
The dead in Christ will rise first -the living will be caught up with them -and they will be changed.
Neo Deist
Th.D. & D.Div. h.c.
Too bad you don't have true "Scripture." All you (we) have are copies of copies. The originals, which are called the Autographs, have long since been lost or destroyed. Many went up in flames when Nebuchadnezzar II (Persia) destroyed much of Jerusalem. Those copies are subject to human error, therefore no perfect Scripture exists.
It is fine to believe that the Autographs were inerrant, but since we don't have them, it is a moot point.
Not all were damned however.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrowing_of_Hell
This is even stated in the Apostles' Creed.
I believe in God, the Father Almighty, Creator of Heaven and earth; and in Jesus Christ, His only Son Our Lord,
Who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried.
He descended into Hell; the third day He rose again from the dead;
He ascended into Heaven, and sitteth at the right hand of God, the Father almighty; from thence He shall come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy Catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body and life everlasting.
Amen.
Who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried.
He descended into Hell; the third day He rose again from the dead;
He ascended into Heaven, and sitteth at the right hand of God, the Father almighty; from thence He shall come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy Catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body and life everlasting.
Amen.
