Easter. What's with all the plastic eggs, chocolate rabbits & such?

[jeager106]

Unsubstantiated rhetoric



There is shortly after his death.

But not on a pole.


The current state of studies is that it was a T shape. But it is most plausible, not certain.


Your error is your certainty.

See link beloe
Was Jesus crucified on a cross, pole, or stake?
To be certain is an error?

In spite of the overwhelming symbolism of the cross, the precise shape of the object on which Jesus was crucified cannot be proven explicitly from the Bible. The Greek word translated “cross” isstauros, meaning “a pole or a cross used as an instrument of capital punishment.” The Greek wordstauroo, which is translated “crucify” means to be attached to a pole or cross. Though the Greek usage of these words can mean “pole” or “stake,” many scholars argue that Jesus most likely died on a cross in which the upright beam projected above the shorter crosspiece. Biblically, though, an airtight case cannot be made for either a cross or a pole/stake. The Romans were not picky in regards to how they would crucify people. The Romans used crosses, poles, stakes, upside-down crosses, x-shaped crosses, walls, roofs, etc. Jesus could have been crucified on any of these objects and it would not have affected the perfection or sufficiency of His sacrifice.

Read more:Was Jesus crucified on a cross, pole, or stake?

 

[Thana]

I thought easter was supposed to be about Jesus?
Where'd the rabbits, chickens, eggs, come from?
Oh, nooooooooooooooooo, don't tell me easter is influenced by a pagan fertility celebration!
Why do Christian churchs decorate with plastic rabbits & eggs, & such?

I was in church last week and they were talking about Easter and I couldn't help but remember the South Park episode about it, How Stan was frustrated with the Holiday and he didn't understand what painting eggs had to do with Jesus. Then he discovered that it's because Saint Peter was a rabbit and that's why they have those big hats (For rabbits big ears) and that The pope was never supposed to be a person but was supposed to be a rabbit.

The point is, Easter is silly. It's just a Holiday for kids in my family. Sure you can remember Jesus and think about Him, But you can do that any day of the week. Easter is a Catholic pagan weird mess that a lot of Protestants keep away from, Same as Christmas.

 

[JayJayDee]

You know that we've got depictions of both styles of "t/T" shaped crosses that predate Jesus, right? And that the earliest known depiction of Jesus during the punishment is a bit of graffiti dated to a handful of decades after the event was claimed to have occurred?

What depictions would they be Nietzsche? The Romans had a few configurations. The word used in the scriptures does not translate to "cross". The cross as a religious symbol pre-dates Christianly by centuries and it was not used to honor the true God in any way.

In the catacombs there are no pictorials at all left by the early Christians, until well after a few centuries. The first Christians like their Jewish brothers were very strict about images being used as idolatry. There were no images that could be misconstrued or misused.

 

[Not Bob]

Easter is the Christianized version of a pagan holiday named after the Teutonic fertility goddess Eostre. The egg and rabbit are her symbols (fertility, remember?)
It's celebrated either at the Spring Equinox, or alternatively at the first full moon after the Spring Equinox, which is why Easter moves around every year, because that's always on the following Sunday. Check your calendar: the first Sunday after the first full moon after the Spring Equinox is Easter, every year.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I dont see painting eggs as a religious practice. I see no relationship or even verbal intent that people are painting eggs for pagan reasons. I just see color on eggs, nothing more.

Its like if pagans in the past played with sticks. 2,000 years later we use sticka for houses.

People against paganism would say "no,no,no you cant use sticks, pagans used those"

and the other says "we are not pagans what is your point"

"But it is wrong because you are using pagan items" (which the intent is for the house not worship)

And they say "but we are not pagan"

Similar to buying candles from bed, hath, and beyond and anti pagans telling us not to buy them because they were used for pagan worship. But wait, they say,"were not pagan"

Its not what you use, its why you use it "and" how you use it.

Most egg painters are probably not pagan. Something arent worshiping using eggs.

Im on my phone, so i have more spelling errors.

Im not understanding how the objects used in paganism can make the intent pagan in todays time period. objects are inanimate.

Im not seeing the connection that people who paint eggs are doing so with the same intent as pagans in the bible. What am I missing here?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Maybe paint eggs on monday during the winter and call it Boncaster not easter? Make it less pagan and more secular, which that is what it is today in a non religiuous sense.

Easter is the Christianized version of a pagan holiday named after the Teutonic fertility goddess Eostre. The egg and rabbit are her symbols (fertility, remember?)
It's celebrated either at the Spring Equinox, or alternatively at the first full moon after the Spring Equinox, which is why Easter moves around every year, because that's always on the following Sunday. Check your calendar: the first Sunday after the first full moon after the Spring Equinox is Easter, every year.

 

[jeager106]

I dont see painting eggs as a religious practice. I see no relationship or even verbal intent that people are painting eggs for pagan reasons. I just see color on eggs, nothing more.

Its like if pagans in the past played with sticks. 2,000 years later we use sticka for houses.

People against paganism would say "no,no,no you cant use sticks, pagans used those"

and the other says "we are not pagans what is your point"

"But it is wrong because you are using pagan items" (which the intent is for the house not worship)

And they say "but we are not pagan"

Similar to buying candles from bed, hath, and beyond and anti pagans telling us not to buy them because they were used for pagan worship. But wait, they say,"were not pagan"

Its not what you use, its why you use it "and" how you use it.

Most egg painters are probably not pagan. Something arent worshiping using eggs.

Im on my phone, so i have more spelling errors.

Im not understanding how the objects used in paganism can make the intent pagan in todays time period. objects are inanimate.

Im not seeing the connection that people who paint eggs are doing so with the same intent as pagans in the bible. What am I missing here?

You are missing the fact that the early church blended pagan rituals with Jesus thus diluting His message.
It's just another way the chruch fell away from the intended message.
People see easter as a time to have a nice family dinner, have games for the kids, substitute a pagan ritual, even if only
symbolically, leaving the sacrifice Jesus made for all of us behind rituals.
Reminds me of a not so funny story I got from a fellow involved.
The fellow was a workmate at G.M. and a fundamentalist hellfire and brimstone kinda guy.
His small church was visited by a church overseer that preached against all the pagan pangentry of easter.
Plastic rabbits, eggs, etc. decorated the close by Catholic chruch. A group of fundamentalists weren't going to stand for
the Catholic church making a pagan joke about Jesus (they thought). So the guys gathered up all the pagan symbols
piled them up and set fire to them on the church lawn late one night.
Like no one would notice a fire hey?
They were promptly arreseted and charged with arson.
The Catholic church posted bail for the guys and patitioned the court to dismiss all charges.
Which the court did.
Methinks the boys went a little too far.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Another JW said it to me like this without scripture. "we understand the meaning behind the holidays today--Lords supper, resurrection, Jesus birth--and why it is celebrated. We are not oppossed to the celebration itself. What we JW ARE opposed to is that the items used in celebrations are from paganism. And to have anything pagan in our worship regardless the reason is against scripture."

I understood her and thought, people get so worked up with the origin of things as if, if the origin is bad the thing itself must be. Thats silly. Thats like my thinking, oh this candle was used for paga worship, so if I used it for light that would be wrong. Is it wrong?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Gosh, true story? I find it silly. Christianity has pagan origins. That doesnt make Jesus less important nor does it make His teachings deluted. I dont see how anyone can mix up celebrating Christ resurrection with celebrating easter.

You are missing the fact that the early church blended pagan rituals with Jesus thus diluting His message.
It's just another way the chruch fell away from the intended message.
People see easter as a time to have a nice family dinner, have games for the kids, substitute a pagan ritual, even if only
symbolically, leaving the sacrifice Jesus made for all of us behind rituals.
Reminds me of a not so funny story I got from a fellow involved.
The fellow was a workmate at G.M. and a fundamentalist hellfire and brimstone kinda guy.
His small church was visited by a church overseer that preached against all the pagan pangentry of easter.
Plastic rabbits, eggs, etc. decorated the close by Catholic chruch. A group of fundamentalists weren't going to stand for
the Catholic church making a pagan joke about Jesus (they thought). So the guys gathered up all the pagan symbols
piled them up and set fire to them on the church lawn late one night.
Like no one would notice a fire hey?
They were promptly arreseted and charged with arson.
The Catholic church posted bail for the guys and patitioned the court to dismiss all charges.
Which the court did.
Methinks the boys went a little too far.

 

[jeager106]

Another JW said it to me like this without scripture. "we understand the meaning behind the holidays today--Lords supper, resurrection, Jesus birth--and why it is celebrated. We are not oppossed to the celebration itself. What we JW ARE opposed to is that the items used in celebrations are from paganism. And to have anything pagan in our worship regardless the reason is against scripture."

I understood her and thought, people get so worked up with the origin of things as if, if the origin is bad the thing itself must be. Thats silly. Thats like my thinking, oh this candle was used for paga worship, so if I used it for light that would be wrong. Is it wrong?

JW are pretty particular about keeping close to scripture and follow scripture closely.
The organization if very sensitive about digging out the truth as it was intended as best any humans can do.
Their path is not an easy one to follow but I feel they do a wonderful job of keeping close to Jehovah.
Wonder? Were I to get a tatoo of a Nazi Swaztika on my forehead, something most people would see an an evil sign.
Would I as a Christian be sending a poor message to others?
I think so. I could rationalize the tatoo saying that it's only a symbol, does not represent who I really am, but the message
would still speak out loudly.
Could one see how kneeling before an image of Mary be taken to be worshipping an idol?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Thats a good point. With Mary, I do see why that is seen as idol worship, from outsiders perspective. If I never been Catholic, Id probably say the same. Ive gone to Mass for ten years or so with my friend and I could only find solid foundation in faith as a christian if one is a Catholic (take the church sacraments) outside that, I feel they are growing in Christ.

With the symbol, I didnt realize anti catholics see it thay way. That is completely (the concept) against catholic teaching. Im sure most Catholics would be shocked at mis interpreting the difference in praying to an object and praying innfront of one.

Some christian pagan beliefs, I understand (not just catholicism) but some like wearing a cross around the neck just plain silly to me.

JW are pretty particular about keeping close to scripture and follow scripture closely.
The organization if very sensitive about digging out the truth as it was intended as best any humans can do.
Their path is not an easy one to follow but I feel they do a wonderful job of keeping close to Jehovah.
Wonder? Were I to get a tatoo of a Nazi Swaztika on my forehead, something most people would see an an evil sign.
Would I as a Christian be sending a poor message to others?
I think so. I could rationalize the tatoo saying that it's only a symbol, does not represent who I really am, but the message
would still speak out loudly.
Could one see how kneeling before an image of Mary be taken to be worshipping an idol?

 

[Nietzsche]

What depictions would they be Nietzsche? The Romans had a few configurations. The word used in the scriptures does not translate to "cross". The cross as a religious symbol pre-dates Christianly by centuries and it was not used to honor the true God in any way.

In the catacombs there are no pictorials at all left by the early Christians, until well after a few centuries. The first Christians like their Jewish brothers were very strict about images being used as idolatry. There were no images that could be misconstrued or misused.

Here you go(the first of these is a crucifixion of an individual before Jesus);

The first one dates back to the 3rd century BCE.

This one is 2nd Century CE graffiti, depicting a woman(the picture does not show it, but there is a name above it, 'Alcimilla')

This one is one of the earliest depictions of the Nazarene's crucifixion from roughly the 1st-2nd Century(the words are mocking a Christian named Alexamenos)

And this here is a 2nd-3rd century CE talisman of sorts, depicting Jesus

Still sure it was a stake/spike?

 

[Nakosis]

I thought easter was supposed to be about Jesus?
Where'd the rabbits, chickens, eggs, come from?
Oh, nooooooooooooooooo, don't tell me easter is influenced by a pagan fertility celebration!
Why do Christian churchs decorate with plastic rabbits & eggs, & such?

Christianity had to do something to distance itself from Judaism. Pagan fertility vs unleavened bread. Which do you think would draw a larger crowd?

 

[JayJayDee]

Here you go(the first of these is a crucifixion of an individual before Jesus);

The first one dates back to the 3rd century BCE.

This one is 2nd Century CE graffiti, depicting a woman(the picture does not show it, but there is a name above it, 'Alcimilla')

This one is one of the earliest depictions of the Nazarene's crucifixion from roughly the 1st-2nd Century(the words are mocking a Christian named Alexamenos)

And this here is a 2nd-3rd century CE talisman of sorts, depicting Jesus

Still sure it was a stake/spike?

Well, I Googled the images and found the ones you have shown but I also saw those with an upright stake, (above) so because the instrument on which Christ was impaled is called a "stauros" in the scriptures, (which never means a cross) I can be as sure as you are that what the Bible says is true.

The cross as a religious symbol was in use long before Jesus walked the earth......

Cross - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Why does Christendom insist that Christ died on a cross?

According to Vine’s Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words, the shape of the cross “had its origin in ancient Chaldea, and was used as the symbol of the god Tammuz (being in the shape of the mystic Tau, the initial of his name) in that country and in adjacent lands, including Egypt.

“By the middle of the third century A.D. the churches had either departed from, or had travestied, certain doctrines of the Christian faith. In order to increase the prestige of the apostate ecclesiastical system, pagans were received into the churches…and were permitted largely to retain their pagan signs and symbols. Hence, the Tau or T, in its most frequent form, with the cross-piece lowered, was adopted to stand for the cross of Christ.”

Who was this Tammuz? Anciently, he has been known by many names: Baal, Molech, Osiris. The Bible identifies him as Nimrod: “He was a mighty hunter before [in place of] the Lord” (Gen. 10:9).

Tammuz was the dying god who came to life as a mimic of Jesus. Babylon is the origin of this symbol. Tammuz is the one honored by the cross.

The point, as I mentioned before is not just the shape of the implement used to put Christ to death....apart from its unsavory beginnings, it is the continued use of this image as an object of worship. The transfer from paganism to Christianity is plain to see. There is no "cross" in the Bible.

This image is reverenced and it is bizarre that people make replicas of this thing and decorate their places of worship with it and even wear it as jewellery.

If Jesus had been hung, would they have replicas of gallows on their churches or have them hanging around their necks? Perhaps some might have a little figure of Jesus hanging from the rope! Or if Jesus had been shot with an arrow...beaten to death with a club....what then?


This is how JW's depict the death of Christ and there is nothing in the Bible that argues with it.

 

[Nietzsche]

That first one is a drawing done by a 16th century Flemish artist. The second one obviously predates it(and seeing how it's the Torture of Marsyas it predates Jesus quite a bit too), but my argument isn't that the stake/pole method was never used, just that the odds of it being the method used on the Nazarene are slim. We know which style was used most commonly by the Romans, and it involved a crossbeam.

Well, I Googled the images and found the ones you have shown but I also saw those with an upright stake, (above) so because the instrument on which Christ was impaled is called a "stauros" in the scriptures, (which never means a cross) I can be as sure as you are that what the Bible says is true.

Wrong. "Stauros" is an extremely ancient word, one that originally meant just a "stand" or "pole". But languages are dynamic. They evolve. And in this case while Homer and the Greece of his era used it in the sense of stake/pole, by the time we get to the era of the Nazarene, it had unquestionably shifted to mean a pole with a crossbeam. You should be looking for 'Koine' or 'Alexandrian' Greek. That's what was used during the centuries before & after Jesus, and in it staturos meant some kind of crossbeam.

Are you aware of the works of Lucian of Samosata? 2nd Century Greek writer, one of the few third-party(as in non-Christian) sources on Jesus of Nazareth. He used the word 'staturos' undoubtedly to mean something with some kind of crossbeam.

 

[NulliuSINverba]

I thought easter was supposed to be about Jesus?

Easter is entirely about Jesus.

And rabbits.

Where'd the rabbits, chickens, eggs, come from?

OK. Do I really have to explain all of this to you?

Jesus died on a cross. Got it?
Hot cross buns require eggs. Got it?

That accounts for the eggs.

You can't get eggs without chickens, right? That explains the chickens.

...

Meanwhile, the rabbit's presence is explainable by pointing out that there are some things for which God has morally sufficient reasons. If that fails to satisfy, feel free to consider the rabbits a mystery.

Oh, nooooooooooooooooo, don't tell me easter is influenced by a pagan fertility celebration!

Of course not. It's 100% corn-fed Christianity.

...

Besides, bunnies are cute.

What do you have against bunnies? Why are you angry with bunnies?

 

[Tiapan]

Confused mixed metaphors, who cares at least the chocolate is great.

 

[JayJayDee]

That first one is a drawing done by a 16th century Flemish artist. The second one obviously predates it(and seeing how it's the Torture of Marsyas it predates Jesus quite a bit too), but my argument isn't that the stake/pole method was never used, just that the odds of it being the method used on the Nazarene are slim. We know which style was used most commonly by the Romans, and it involved a crossbeam.

What was the point of my whole post Nietzsche? Did you miss it?

Why is it so important to Christendom that Christ died on a cross?

Where did the cross as a religious symbol come from? Whose worship was it associated with long before Jesus came on the scene?

Should we make an image of it or anything else, to use in our worship? (Ex 20:4)

Wrong. "Stauros" is an extremely ancient word, one that originally meant just a "stand" or "pole". But languages are dynamic. They evolve. And in this case while Homer and the Greece of his era used it in the sense of stake/pole, by the time we get to the era of the Nazarene, it had unquestionably shifted to mean a pole with a crossbeam. You should be looking for 'Koine' or 'Alexandrian' Greek. That's what was used during the centuries before & after Jesus, and in it staturos meant some kind of crossbeam.

Are you aware of the works of Lucian of Samosata? 2nd Century Greek writer, one of the few third-party(as in non-Christian) sources on Jesus of Nazareth. He used the word 'staturos' undoubtedly to mean something with some kind of crossbeam.

Not the point......don't you see that the shape of it doesn't really matter.....it's what Christendom made of the shape and where it originated..... it contaminates every faction of "Christianity" that keeps it and holds it as sacred. It isn't sacred and never was to God.

 

[Riverwolf]

Not the point......don't you see that the shape ofdoesn't really matter.....it's what Christendom made of the shape and where it originated..... it contaminates every faction of "Christianity" that keeps it and holds it as sacred. It isn't sacred and never was to God.

But if the shape doesn't really matter, then God wouldn't be offended by the cross shape.

 

[JayJayDee]

But if the shape doesn't really matter, then God wouldn't be offended by the cross shape.

For the same reason he rejected the golden calf. He created cows but not for worship....not even their babies.

He created trees too but not to be worshipped.

The cross is repugnant because of where it originated and who "sowed" it into Christianity long after Jesus as gone.