Economists admit that tax cuts for the rich fail to trickle down

[Altfish]

Overseas tax havens are reprehensible.

But investments? ( incl pension funds which
a rich person doesn't need?)

Invest in what? Real estate development,
industry etc?
Thats jobs.

The govt gets your/ their money, THEN
you see it being sprayed overseas!

Need i give examples!

All the naughty rich in the USA couldn't fund that till
valentines day and then they're ducked dry looking in dumpsters.

Trickle down seemed to have no effect one way or the
other according to the cited article.

Give the poor money it gets spent. ...immediately. That's why raising the minimum wage works.

 

[metis]

I look at Hong Kong, since its my home.

About 20 years ago, I was staying at a hotel with my wife just outside of Detroit, and this hotel was used by British Airways for their crews. In the morning, as their crew (about 20) were waiting to be shuttled to the airport, I asked them what was their favorite city to visit, and most of them said Hong Kong.

BTW, their 2nd choice was Sydney. My parents also enjoyed it there as well when they visited in the 1980's.

 

[Peter Griffin]

Of course it works for everyone.
( discounting your drug addicts, and some others who won't particpate)

Some do better than others. Thsts life.
But more have more money and opportunity,
to put it mildly, than pre capitalism.

I look at Hong Kong, since its my home.
Please pull up a photo or two.

Capitalism did that. It was a couple of
dirty impoverished fishing villages, look at it now!

Nothing but nothing else could have done that.

Nothing in life is without flaw and need for improvement, but think that complaints about capitalism as such are very unfortunate.

Have you read much of Karl Marx? He presents some intriguing analysis that Capitalism is flawed and ultimately will fail.

 

[Peter Griffin]

Of course it works for everyone.
( discounting your drug addicts, and some others who won't particpate)

Some do better than others. Thsts life.
But more have more money and opportunity,
to put it mildly, than pre capitalism.

I look at Hong Kong, since its my home.
Please pull up a photo or two.

Capitalism did that. It was a couple of
dirty impoverished fishing villages, look at it now!

Nothing but nothing else could have done that.

Nothing in life is without flaw and need for improvement, but think that complaints about capitalism as such are very unfortunate.

Just a quick search pulled up this?
In United States, 15.1% live below the poverty line as of 2010. In Hong Kong, however, that number is 19.9% as of 2016.

Hong Kong is beautiful and certainly has a lot going for it, but shouldn't everyone be able to participate?

 

[danieldemol]

Naturally I don't like to be taxed, but as
nearly all of the money I "make" is plowed
back into development-jobs, housing,
rentals, I dont see how the government
taking that money to do whatever, is going
to benefit the poor.

You don't see how government housing, government jobs help the poor more than your rentals which rape the poor1 just to leave them on the streets when they are too old/incapacitated to work benefits the poor?

Here's a tip, compare the government spending *on the poor* to Audi's spending on "whatever" would be a good place to start.

The fat cats can go without their cigars which are a prime example of spending on "whatever". Food store owners still have windows to clean.

1 apologies in advance if you dont evict people that can't afford to pay the rent due to legitimate reasons. ETA many rich people do evict such tenants.

 

[Revoltingest]

I've seen numbers for how long you could run the country on it if all their money were confiscated.

I forget but its like how long the lawn mower would run on starter fluid.

As for increasing taxes kind of depends
who / what is taxed. If I recall mitt Romney
lives off dividends and fat salary.

I could see trimming him a bit.

Naturally I don't like to be taxed, but as
nearly all of the money I "make" is plowed
back into development-jobs, housing,
rentals, I dont see how the government
taking that money to do whatever, is going
to benefit the poor.

Another option is spending less on playing
policeman to the world.

 

[Heyo]

Have you read much of Karl Marx? He presents some intriguing analysis that Capitalism is flawed and ultimately will fail.

Marx did a thorough analysis of 19th century capitalism and most of that still applies today. But we are 150 years in the future and there are developments Marx couldn't have dreamt about.

 

[Peter Griffin]

Marx did a thorough analysis of 19th century capitalism and most of that still applies today. But we are 150 years in the future and there are developments Marx couldn't have dreamt about.

What developments were you thinking?

 

[Nakosis]

Do you think Capitalism works for everyone or just the handful at the top? And if you do, how does it work for everyone?

IMO, it doesn't work for everyone. It works for those who understand it and participates. It doesn't work for those who don't.

What this means to me is that our education system has done a ****-poor job of educating people about capitalism. Math, science, world history etc... Nothing about how to succeed at capitalism.

Those that don't understand how a system works are those most susceptible to being taken advantage of.

 

[Heyo]

What always confounds me is that the discussion
of taxation is always about who & how much, but
rarely about specific tax policies, eg, marginal vs
average tax rates. Good taxation strategy cannot
be designed based upon such simplistic a view
of more-or-less on rich-or-poor.

Specific tax policies are about the Cents. The general discussion is about the Dollars.

 

[Peter Griffin]

IMO, it doesn't work for everyone. It works for those who understand it and participates. It doesn't work for those who don't.

What this means to me is that our education system has done a ****-poor job of educating people about capitalism. Math, science, world history etc... Nothing about how to succeed at capitalism.

Those that don't understand how a system works are those most susceptible to being taken advantage of.

Isn't that how all privilege works? You have to be in the know to participate? I completely agree that education is in the dump, but IMO, it is directly related to capitalism being more concerned about profits that educating.

 

[Revoltingest]

Specific tax policies are about the Cents. The general discussion is about the Dollars.

Get enuf cents, & you have dollars.
Tax us high enuf, & we're left with cents.

But seriously, tax policies create incentives & disincentives.
These can have enormous effect on the economy. Driving
up home prices is one example. Tax deductability of interest
& property taxes, with abatement of income tax on sale profit
drive prices up by subsidizing the cost, & treatment of profit
as attrative investment. Add to this the monetary policy of
institutionalizing inflation, which makes over-paying a problem
that disappears over time.

 

[Heyo]

What developments were you thinking?

The rise of the middle class (and its fall), the shift from mostly blue collar jobs to white collar, international corporations, casino capitalism, automatisation on a level beyond the spinning Jenny and so much more.

 

[Secret Chief]

IMO, it doesn't work for everyone. It works for those who understand it and participates. It doesn't work for those who don't.

What this means to me is that our education system has done a ****-poor job of educating people about capitalism. Math, science, world history etc... Nothing about how to succeed at capitalism.

Those that don't understand how a system works are those most susceptible to being taken advantage of.

Is it not the case that capitalism requires and maintains a pool of unemployed people, to supress wage levels? No understanding or education will change that in order to enable everyone that "wants" to participate to be able to do so. There's more people than jobs, basically. And with the coming AI, capitalism is going to get a whole lot more **** for many around the world.

 

[Nakosis]

Is it not the case that capitalism requires and maintains a pool of unemployed people, to supress wage levels? No understanding or education will change that in order to enable everyone that "wants" to participate to be able to do so. There's more people than jobs, basically. And with the coming AI, capitalism is going to get a whole lot more **** for many around the world.

How does capitalism maintain a pool of unemployed people?
What is the mechanism behind this?
Do companies force people not to work?
Does the government constrain people from working?

Capitalism creates jobs. The more capitalism the more jobs. The only time capitalism isn't creating jobs is when capitalism is being suppressed.

 

[Nakosis]

Isn't that how all privilege works? You have to be in the know to participate? I completely agree that education is in the dump, but IMO, it is directly related to capitalism being more concerned about profits that educating.

Some companies do, not all but many do support the education of their employees. They pay for classes, provide seminars, create grants. It benefits the companies that do but it is not required.
For a company to succeed it has to focus on profit. An educated workforce will increase profitability. The owners of a company are just people. They suffer from the same lack of education about capitalism as the rest do.

 

[Secret Chief]

How does capitalism maintain a pool of unemployed people?
What is the mechanism behind this?
Do companies force people not to work?
Does the government constrain people from working?

Capitalism creates jobs. The more capitalism the more jobs. The only time capitalism isn't creating jobs is when capitalism is being suppressed.

It's part and parcel of the system, there is never enough jobs for everyone that wants one. Therefore there are unemployed people. Therefore this keeps a lid on wage rises. "If you don't like the wage, you know where the door is."

 

[Nakosis]

It's part and parcel of the system, there is never enough jobs for everyone that wants one. Therefore there are unemployed people. Therefore this keeps a lid on wage rises. "If you don't like the wage, you know where the door is."

A number of people I have dealt with personally felt the same way. My counsel to them was "Did you ask for a raise?"

If you don't speak up, the owner is going to assume that you are happy with what you are being paid. Good workers are like gold. Mediocre workers, it depends on how replaceable they are. The lazy, yeah they don't have much of a chance of getting a raise. The question is, are you worth more money to the company.

 

[Peter Griffin]

Some companies do, not all but many do support the education of their employees. They pay for classes, provide seminars, create grants. It benefits the companies that do but it is not required.
For a company to succeed it has to focus on profit. An educated workforce will increase profitability. The owners of a company are just people. They suffer from the same lack of education about capitalism as the rest do.

IMHO, anyone that hasn't studied Karl Marx's theories of capitalism, are lacking a good understanding of how capitalism works.

 

[Peter Griffin]

A number of people I have dealt with personally felt the same way. My counsel to them was "Did you ask for a raise?"

If you don't speak up, the owner is going to assume that you are happy with what you are being paid. Good workers are like gold. Mediocre workers, it depends on how replaceable they are. The lazy, yeah they don't have much of a chance of getting a raise. The question is, are you worth more money to the company.