Education of women in Islam

[Wasp]

That you see the existence of rigid gender and family role expectations as more of a cultural/political thing than as attributable to Islaamic teachings.

I was referring to the topic of the thread, not everything. So I guess I wouldn't say it about Islam in general.

It depends what exactly you mean. I can't answer to such a vague question. All I'm saying is that education of women is not something that Islam in itself says really anything about. So if there is - as there is discrimination and negligence regarding it, it cannot be made into a religious problem and it can't be solved with that either. Like FGM and domestic abuse.

 

[danieldemol]

Qur'an alone Muslim is a title that contradicts itself.

Whether the title contradicts itself is irrelevant, they exist and that’s their self proclaimed title.

In a way he's right. But who cares what he says? You might as well be quoting your local priest.

Ahmadiyya Muslims care what he says because he is to them an “infallible” caliph of Allah.

Since Paarsurrey claims to be an Ahmadi I quoted him and my message was in response to Paarsurrey

 

[Wasp]

Ahmadiyya Muslims care what he says because he is to them an “infallible” caliph of Allah.

Well they're wrong and there's very few of them.

Since Paarsurrey claims to be an Ahmadi I quoted him and my message was in response to Paarsurrey

Really? I wouldn't have thought so..

 

[paarsurrey]

If we are talking about mainstream Islam the source of guidance is both Quran and Hadith, But in Ahmadiyya Islam the source of understanding the Quran according to my understanding is your kaliph, so we need only quote your kaliph to have the Ahmadiyya understanding.

So you have to decide for yourself, are you a Quran alone Muslim or are you an Ahmadi Muslim?

The Caliph has also to take guidance from Quran. The literacy rate of our Ahmadiyya Muslim community, both women and men, is almost 100%, accordingly.

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

Verse 2:282

Instead of just giving a reference of ,please quote the verse with the verses in the context, some verses before and some verses after the verse in question, for correct understanding.

Regards

 

[danieldemol]

Well they're wrong and there's very few of them.
Really? I wouldn't have thought so..

See post 84 if you doubt me

 

[Wasp]

See post 84 if you doubt me

Would I ever.

 

[danieldemol]

The Caliph has also to take guidance from Quran. The literacy rate of our Ahmadiyya Muslim community, both women and men, is almost 100%, accordingly.

Regards

Do you have a citation for that?

 

[paarsurrey]

Do you have a citation for that?

[PDF]
CPIN pakistan ahmadis - Department of Justice

https://www.justice.gov/eoir/page/file/1150211/downloadApr 2, 2019 - 11.2The Ahmadiyya Muslim Association UK verification procedure .............. 48 ..... may be at greater risk of discrimination and harassment than men (see Ahmadi community in .... twogroups17, both with their headquarters in the UK18. The Ahmadiyya ..... 100 per cent and literacy rates were high. The study ...

OOOOOOOOOOO

Regards

 

[danieldemol]

[PDF]
CPIN pakistan ahmadis - Department of Justice

https://www.justice.gov/eoir/page/file/1150211/downloadApr 2, 2019 - 11.2The Ahmadiyya Muslim Association UK verification procedure .............. 48 ..... may be at greater risk of discrimination and harassment than men (see Ahmadi community in .... twogroups17, both with their headquarters in the UK18. The Ahmadiyya ..... 100 per cent and literacy rates were high. The study ...

OOOOOOOOOOO

Regards

That article makes 2 mentions of literacy rates, both are for the city of Rabwah in Pakistan, and not for the Ahmadi population.

It says in full school enrolments (for Rabwah) were 100% and literacy rates are high. Which it goes on to quantify as being a literacy rate of 85% for the city of Rabwah.

 

[Notanumber]

What is the point of educating Islamic females when Islam has such a low opinion of them?

 

[Shad]

Instead of just giving a reference of ,please quote the verse with the verses in the context, some verses before and some verses after the verse in question, for correct understanding.

Regards

Look up the verse. It isn't hard. You can quote what you want. You are just babbling without provide actual counter-points that refuted the verse.

 

[Wasp]

Look up the verse. It isn't hard. You can quote what you want. You are just babbling without provide actual counter-points that refuted the verse.

2:282 "Believers, when you contract a debt for a stated term, put it down in writing; have a scribe write it down with fairness between you. No scribe should refuse to write: let him write as God has taught him, let the debtor dictate, and let him fear God, his Lord, and not diminish [the debt] at all. If the debtor is weak in mind or body, or unable to dictate, then in fairness let his guardian dictate for him. Call in two of your men as witnesses. But if two men cannot be found, then call one man and two women out of those you approve of as witnesses, so that if one of the two women should forget the other can remind her. Let the witnesses not refuse when they are summoned. Do not be disinclined to write down your debts, be they small or large, together with the date of payment. This is more just in the sight of God; it is more reliable as testimony, and more likely to prevent doubts arising between you, unless it be ready merchandise which you give or take from hand to hand, then it will not be held against you for not writing it down. Have witnesses present whenever you trade with one another, and let no harm be done to either scribe or witness, for if you did cause them harm, it would be a crime on your part. Be mindful of God; He teaches you: He has full knowledge of everything."

 

[Shad]

2:282 "Believers, when you contract a debt for a stated term, put it down in writing; have a scribe write it down with fairness between you. No scribe should refuse to write: let him write as God has taught him, let the debtor dictate, and let him fear God, his Lord, and not diminish [the debt] at all. If the debtor is weak in mind or body, or unable to dictate, then in fairness let his guardian dictate for him. Call in two of your men as witnesses. But if two men cannot be found, then call one man and two women out of those you approve of as witnesses, so that if one of the two women should forget the other can remind her. Let the witnesses not refuse when they are summoned. Do not be disinclined to write down your debts, be they small or large, together with the date of payment. This is more just in the sight of God; it is more reliable as testimony, and more likely to prevent doubts arising between you, unless it be ready merchandise which you give or take from hand to hand, then it will not be held against you for not writing it down. Have witnesses present whenever you trade with one another, and let no harm be done to either scribe or witness, for if you did cause them harm, it would be a crime on your part. Be mindful of God; He teaches you: He has full knowledge of everything."

Ergo less men are needed then woman. Woman are less valued.

 

[Wasp]

Ergo less men are needed then woman. Woman are less valued.

Not in all cases. In the old days women didn't know anything about such things. How could they be witness to something they don't understand? In these days things are somewhat different, though still men generally know more about such things.

 

[Shad]

Not in all cases. In the old days women didn't know anything about such things.

Education is not a criteria in the verse. More so if so-called education of women was a priority the verse is useless and contradicts the claim. Your point is nonsense. More so there were women that were heads of state before and after Islam.

How could they be witness to something they don't understand?

It is called education which points out the nonsense of the verse and your counter-point.

In these days things are somewhat different, though still men generally know more about such things.

No as knowledge of math isn't unique to a sex. Women do not need a degree to understand that someone loaned a person X amount of dollars.

 

[Notanumber]

Not in all cases. In the old days women didn't know anything about such things. How could they be witness to something they don't understand? In these days things are somewhat different, though still men generally know more about such things.

I understood that Muhammad married a wealthy businesswoman. Is this not the case?

 

[Wasp]

Education is not a criteria in the verse.

Education was rare back then.

More so if so-called education of women was a priority the verse is useless and contradicts the claim.

Nobody's education was a priority.

Your point is nonsense. More so there were women that were heads of state before and after Islam.

But in Islam a woman cannot be a ruler.

It is called education which points out the nonsense of the verse and your counter-point.

Education is not the only reason behind it. One other is that women are more emotional and that way can be less reliable.

No as knowledge of math isn't unique to a sex.

That isn't exactly true. It's a complicated subject.

Successful careers in math and science require many types of cognitive abilities. Females tend to excel in verbal abilities, with large differences between females and males found when assessments include writing samples. High-level achievement in science and math requires the ability to communicate effectively and comprehend abstract ideas, so the female advantage in writing should be helpful in all academic domains. Males outperform females on most measures of visuospatial abilities, which have been implicated as contributing to sex differences on standardized exams in mathematics and science.

The Science of Sex Differences in Science and Mathematics

Women do not need a degree to understand that someone loaned a person X amount of dollars.

It requires more than that to be a reliable legal witness.

 

[Wasp]

I understood that Muhammad married a wealthy businesswoman. Is this not the case?

Yes.

 

[Shad]

Education was rare back then.

The all powerful God of Islam can not create an education system nor promote it? Instead Allah must be confined to human capabilities thus make a moral view reflecting the human mind set instead of a loftier goal? I am shocked at your concession

Nobody's education was a priority.
But in Islam a woman cannot be ruler.

Ergo Islam treats woman as less than men

Education is not the only reason behind it. One other is that women are more emotional and that can be less reliable.

This is pure sexist BS used to justify your religious babble. My mother was an account that saved her boss almost 2 million in her first year on the job. Try again son. Maybe move outside the 7th century mindset.

That isn't exactly true its complicated subject.

Only because you have a simple mindset. When you think woman are incompetent the answers are always easy

The Science of Sex Differences in Science and Mathematics

It requires more than that to be a reliable legal witness.

Tell this to someone that does not have female family members that jobs that required knowledge of math. My mother was an accountant. My cousin runs stats for the Canadian government in a medical lab.

No where in your source does it say woman can not do math nor accounting. Try again son. Do you even know many women? Ask them if they know what a dollar is or that they can not remember numbers. See what the response you will get is.