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Egyptian exodus proof or slavery?

River Sea

Well-Known Member
A prophet gets messages from God to pass on to others but because Moses did not want to speak (because he was not a good speaker) God would give the message to Moses and Moses would tell Aaron and Aaron would be the one who told Pharaoh. So it was as if Aaron was the prophet and Moses was God.

What an interesting way for the name God.
So basically if one doesn't want to speak, then has to have someone else do the speaking, then one gets to have a label as God.

So could the name God also mean to afraid to talk so have someone else do the talking?

Because what would the name be if Moses wasn't afraid to talk and did the talking?

I thought Moses was a prophet? So was only Aaron a prophet and Moses is God all cause he's afraid to talk?

What is Baal., that's God too right?
What is Lord?
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
No, but those who blather about "true history" are outliers whose existence is of little statistical import. They serve as little more than fundie fodder.

Wikipedia: The Exodus # Modern Scholarship

Scholars classify the Exodus as the founding myth[d] of the Israelites,[18][e] recounted in the Book of Exodus. It tells a story of Israelite enslavement and eventual departure from Egypt, revelations at biblical Mount Sinai, and wanderings in the wilderness up to the borders of Canaan.[6] Its message is that the Israelites were delivered from slavery by Yahweh their god, and therefore belong to him by covenant.[18]

The majority view of modern scholars is that the Torah does not give an accurate account of the origins of the Israelites, who appear instead to have formed as an entity in the central highlands of Canaan in the late second millennium BCE from the indigenous Canaanite culture.[19][20][21] Most modern scholars believe that the story of the Exodus has some historical basis,[22][23] but contains little material that is provable.[24]

Origins and historicity
See also: Sources and parallels of the Exodus and Historicity of the Bible
There are two main positions on the historicity of the Exodus in modern scholarship.[19] The majority position is that the biblical Exodus narrative has some historical basis, although there is little of historical worth in it.[24][25][18] The other position, often associated with the school of Biblical minimalism,[26][27] is that the biblical exodus traditions are the invention of the exilic and post-exilic Jewish community, with little to no historical basis.[28] The biblical Exodus narrative is best understood as a founding myth of the Jewish people, providing an ideological foundation for their culture and institutions, not an accurate depiction of the history of the Israelites.[29][18] The view that the biblical narrative is essentially correct unless it can explicitly be proven wrong (Biblical maximalism) is today held by "few, if any [...] in mainstream scholarship, only on the more fundamentalist fringes."[19]

Reliability of the biblical account
Mainstream scholarship no longer accepts the biblical Exodus account as history for a number of reasons. Most scholars agree that the Exodus stories were written centuries after the apparent setting of the stories.[21] The Book of Exodus itself attempts to ground the event firmly in history, dating the exodus to the 2666th year after creation (Exodus 12:40-41), the construction of the tabernacle to year 2667 (Exodus 40:1-2, 17), stating that the Israelites dwelled in Egypt for 430 years (Exodus 12:40-41), and including place names such as Goshen (Gen. 46:28), Pithom, and Ramesses (Exod. 1:11), as well as stating that 600,000 Israelite men were involved (Exodus 12:37).[30] The Book of Numbers further states that the number of Israelite males aged 20 years and older in the desert during the wandering were 603,550, including 22,273 first-borns, which modern estimates put at 2.5-3 million total Israelites, a number that could not be supported by the Sinai Desert through natural means.[31] The geography is vague with regions such as Goshen unidentified, and there are internal problems with dating in the Pentateuch.[9] No modern attempt to identify an historical Egyptian prototype for Moses has found wide acceptance, and no period in Egyptian history matches the biblical accounts of the Exodus.[32] Some elements of the story are miraculous and defy rational explanation, such as the Plagues of Egypt and the Crossing of the Red Sea.[33] The Bible did not mention the names of any of the pharaohs involved in the Exodus narrative, making it difficult for modern scholars to match Egyptian history and the biblical narrative.[34]

While ancient Egyptian texts from the New Kingdom mention "Asiatics" living in Egypt as slaves and workers, these people cannot be securely connected to the Israelites, and no contemporary Egyptian text mentions a large-scale exodus of slaves like that described in the Bible.[35] The earliest surviving historical mention of the Israelites, the Egyptian Merneptah Stele (c. 1207 BCE), appears to place them in or around Canaan and gives no indication of any exodus.[36] Archaeologists Israel Finkelstein and Neil Asher Silberman say that archaeology has not found any evidence for even a small band of wandering Israelites living in the Sinai: "The conclusion – that Exodus did not happen at the time and in the manner described in the Bible – seems irrefutable [...] repeated excavations and surveys throughout the entire area have not provided even the slightest evidence."[37] Instead, modern archaeology suggests continuity between Canaanite and Israelite settlement, indicating a primarily Canaanite origin for Israel, with no suggestion that a group of foreigners from Egypt comprised early Israel.[38][39]

I believe that Israelite ethnogenesis is far more complexed and nuanced than that offered by either the conquest or the organic evolution models, but talk of accepting the book of Exodus as accurate history is simply nonsense.

I guess I'm more of a maximalist than you are and certainly realise that with the documentary hypothesis and with complications in understanding the archaeology of Canaan and placing the Exodus in the appropriate time frame, most scholars probably don't see the Exodus and conquest stories as accurate. However imo with from what I have found out and with a will to do it, it certainly looks as if all these problems can be resolved in a scholarly way even though the web seems to be pretty tangled at the moment.
But I guess there will always be people who have not got the will to sort it out in favor of the truth of the scriptures.
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
You are also more willing to disregard the sciences if the results do not cohere with your religious beliefs.

I am more willing to do that I guess. But with archaeology there are varieties of interpretations of the same evidence so what you might see as disregarding science is probably just going with a less favoured interpretation.
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
Not nearly enough to begin to justify literalism.

By the way, when was this exodus?

I see the Exodus as having happened 480 years before the 4th year of King Solomon's reign, which it seems is about 1446 BC.
I find it hard to justify 2-3 million people coming out of Egypt however.
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
I see the Exodus as having happened 480 years before the 4th year of King Solomon's reign, which it seems is about 1446 BC.
Wikipedia: 15th Century BC is worth scanning if only in an effort to establish context for a 1446 Exodus. Imagine the devastation of Egypt without leaving so mush as a fragment of evidence in the complex and dynamic world of that period. I cherish the Book of Exodus, but the fact remains that it offers an almost comically myopic picture of the region, while eradicating the history and culture of so many. .

I see the Exodus as having happened 480 years before the 4th year of King Solomon's reign, which it seems is about 1446 BC.
I find it hard to justify 2-3 million people coming out of Egypt however.
Yes.
 

Bharat Jhunjhunwala

TruthPrevails
Even the Hebrew alphabet is said to have come from Egyptian hieroglyphics.
You may like to see the attached file showing the similarity of Old Hebrew and Indus Valley signs.
 

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joelr

Well-Known Member
I agree that Biblical chronology does not match with Egypt. But it matches with the Indus chrononology. I am giving a brief concordance made by me.

I don't understand? I see you understand the Indus theology was similar to Hinduism. But the dates for Adam range from 4000, 6000 to 10 to 12000. Obviously they are estimates but Adam and Eve/first human mythologies were popular in the cultures who the OT ended up taking stories from. They are mythologies, most modern Christians consider Genesis to be entirely mythical. Historical scholars know Genesis was not written to be accurate history but was borrowing older stories to create a myth for the Hebrew people. It isn't history?

Also the Indus Valley in contrast to contemporary Egyptian and Mesopotamian civilizations, has no temples which was a huge part of Mesopotamian and Hebrew theology. One Temple at Ain Dara has giant footprints in the cement of Yahweh walking in to the holy of holies. Their Gods lived in the temples at least when on Earth.

But I don't understand what you are getting at? The Hebrew writers used Mesopotamian stories not anything like Hindu mythology? So what are you getting at?
 

joelr

Well-Known Member
It would take 100 pages to respond to your statements on Creation and Flood. Happy to that too, but maybe later. I respond to Gilgamesh here.
Gilgamesh traveled from Sumer to Dilmun on the sea. Dilmun is identified as Indus Valley (~Samuel Noah Kramer). Here he met Utnapishtim who told him about the Flood. I am attaching my post on Gilgamesh for the details please.
I appreciate this conversation. Thanks.


I don't think so. First of all "prophets" from every religion are telling radically different versions of Gods and theology. There is zero evidence for a theistic deity, zero evidence that a deity speaks to people. All prophecies are vague, written after the fact and sound like things people of the time would make up. There have been thousands of religions and in most people claim a God gave them a message. In those times it was believable for a holy man to say "God has spoken to me......he has proclaimed....". So they did it.
Oddly enough, if ANY religious leader today made such claims it would be known he was making it up or was crazy.
 

joelr

Well-Known Member
No doubt what David Rohl has proposed archaeologically and historically has given him hope for his ideas being accepted once the Christians started to hear it and see that it helped with the debate over the historicity of the Exodus and other parts of the Bible. But the reality is that his chronology ideas concerning Egypt can be put aside and still archaeology supports the Exodus and those other parts of the Old Testament, and many other archaeologists and historians see that also. The archaeology is not David Rohl's archaeology, David along with others have just interpreted it positively towards the historicity of the Bible.
And really it is not just fundie Christians that say the Exodus and conquest etc are true history and it is not just David Rohl who makes money from either saying the Bible is true or that it is historically false.
They 100% do.
The Exodus (Hebrew: יציאת מצרים, Yeẓi’at Miẓrayim: lit. 'Departure from Egypt') is the founding myth[a] of the Israelites whose narrative is spread over four books of the Torah (or Pentateuch, corresponding to the first five books of the Bible), namely Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy. The majority of modern scholars date the composition of the Torah to the Middle Persian Period (5th century BCE).[1] Some of the traditions contributing to this narrative are older, since allusions to the story are made by 8th-century BCE prophets such as Amos and Hosea. While contemporary scholars no longer treat the narrative as a strictly historical account, debate continues as to the degree to which the narrative corresponds to or conflicts with the historical, archaeological, and geographical records from the period in which it was written.[2][3]

So some scholars believe it may refer to some Israelites returning from Babylon or small groups migrating from Egypt. None believe it actually took that long or had supernatural events attached.

Is that a bad thing? Does that mean that the site is not trustworthy. It is in reality what the author of the article (Bryant G Wood) has said, he does not plant the evidence, the archaeology is there and all he does is point it out.

Of course it's a bad thing? Apologetics is telling lies, uses denial and all sorts of manipulation . Lies by omission as well. So many times I've talked with people familiar with apologetics and they know nothing about the history of the period, other religions, what Christian scholarship says about the Gospel names, dates, it's a branch of knowledge designed to make a religion appear true by any means.

Now let's address the immediate problem with apologetics (why did you ignore this and ask if apologetics were a problem when they literally lied in your example?)
they said this find confirms the truth of the Bible. That is the big take away here. Except the actual truth about this find -
" "They later revised this conclusion and dated their finds to the Middle Bronze Age (1950-1550 BC).[25]""




It is disturbing for some people that a re analysis of the archaeology does point to the truth of the Biblical record.

Actually no. No one cares if the battle of Jerico really happened outside of fundamentalism. If it happened, great, a battle happened. Battles do happen. It would be great actually if some actual true history was in the Bible. NO ONE is threatened by that, no one is disturbed by that. It isn't going to prove Yahweh is real, it's archaeology?
This find just isn't dated to that battle. It doesn't mean that battle didn't happen? Apologetics has to lie about every possible thing?

However, the synopsis I gave from Biblical archaeologist William Dever doesn't say that about archaeology. It's been showing the Biblical stories are mostly not true or not true as written.
That hasn't changed.



When archaeologists started flat out denying the biblical record that also means that the theological suppositions for a bunch of lies is also denied. But eventually the truth comes out since archaeology is continually digging more stuff up. This of course is one reason that the altar and curse tablet at Mt Ebal is important in that regard. It really means that the conquest account is true and theories to the contrary can be thrown out and ideas of the Pentateuch being made up around the time of the Exile can be thrown out.

Is what apologetics is probably telling you.
I just read about this on an apologists site, he says:

"
But liberal critical scholars don’t believe Moses existed. They believe the Jews made up Moses and the Old Testament stories around 586 BC. There’s no way a guy named Moses could have written down the Law they say because Hebrew didn’t exist as a written language yet.

This little tablet delivers a HUGE blow to that theory because it contains a very early form of Hebrew called proto-Hebrew.

And if the early dates are accurate, it shows that Moses himself could be the author of the Torah just as the Bible describes"


Again, couple issues and more examples of apologetics bending the truth.
It's also called proto-Canaanite language. Hmm, he forgot that, or denial-ed it out of existence. Because that shows that the Israelites DID INDEED emerge from Canaanite cities like archaeologists have been saying and NOT FROM EGYPT like Exodus says.

NExt, no one says Moses couldn't write the law down in Hebrew because Hebrew didn't exist?? It's because Moses is a myth. Archaic Hebrew DID exist at the turn of the millenia and is used in some early scripture like Exodus.
Proto-Canaanite is not standard Hebrew and that was not around for a long time after this find. Not only is it not a "blow to the theory" but it doesn't help anything because this suggests even Archaic Hebrew wasn't yet invented?

Those curses were very common. Yahweh was their deity from the beginning (his consort was Ashera, I don't see any apologetics mentioning that....)so there is nothing unusual here? The Israelites, Judahites and so on were a people? Stuff will be found?

An ancient curse in proto-Canaanite means Moses "could have" written the Torah? What? Although even if there was a leader named Moses who the Egyptian myths were placed on, so what? Yes the Jewish people has leaders. So did the Canaanites. Doesn't mean EL is the supreme God of everything?

I don't know what you mean by "theological suppositions for a bunch of lies"? OT theology is nothing new and extremely similar to all Gods prior. In all aspects. Hebrew Bible Professor
Francesca Stavrakopoulou demonstrates this in her latest book.
Scholars are certain the 1st 5 books written after Babylonian exile.
 

joelr

Well-Known Member
I would like to take this forward before we get into other issues. I thought you had relied on enuma, atrahasis and Gilgamesh to show biblical origins in Mesopotamia. I am showing that Gilgamesh shows origins in india valley. Let us clear this up. Thx.


Yes that is the position of scholarship. I would suggest submitting your work for peer-review. Generally when I read a scholarly monograph that passed peer-review it's quite long and there are as many citations/sources as actual text because scholars who review it are going to want to see good sources for information. I do not have a PhD and years to devote to such a study and have no interest in short papers far outside the consensus of experts. I rely on the field to decide what is the best approximation of truth in historical matters.
When the consensus decides Gimamesh shows origins in Indrus valley I'll consider it probable.

I rely on Mesopotamia, Egypt and Babylon when appropriate PhD demonstrate evidence. They can read all the ancient languages and clay tablets which is going to be a starting point to change historical knowledge. The journey from Masters to PhD in history is primarily on vetting original source material. So it's important to have that qualification.

A review of your work by someone in the field would be the starting place because they will right away catch errors. Historical work among amateurs usually ends up snowballing one side because they don't know all the current historical scholarship on the topic.
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
You may like to see the attached file showing the similarity of Old Hebrew and Indus Valley signs.

There seem to be similarities but it seems that the early Indus valley writing has not been deciphered yet and seems to run in left to right and then on the next line right to left, with both words and letters reverses (mirror image of letters in previous line). Since it has not been deciphered I don't know how phonetic values of the letters have been found.
A definite relationship between the Indus script and any other scripts has not been shown.
The early Semitic language is said to have started in Egypt by laborers there around the time the Israelites were there.

History of writing - Wikipedia
Indus script - Wikipedia
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
... it seems that the early Indus valley writing has not been deciphered yet and seems to run in left to right and then on the next line right to left, with both words and letters reverses (mirror image of letters in previous line). Since it has not been deciphered I don't know how phonetic values of the letters have been found.
A definite relationship between the Indus script and any other scripts has not been shown.
The early Semitic language is said to have started in Egypt by laborers there around the time the Israelites were there.

History of writing - Wikipedia
Indus script - Wikipedia

Thanks for ...

Whether the script, which was in use from about 3500–1900 BCE, constitutes a Bronze Age writing script (logographic-syllabic) or proto-writing symbols is debated as it has not yet been deciphered. It is analyzed to have been written from right-to-left or in boustrophedon.[45] [ibid]

It's the first time I've encountered the latter term.
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
Wikipedia: 15th Century BC is worth scanning if only in an effort to establish context for a 1446 Exodus. Imagine the devastation of Egypt without leaving so mush as a fragment of evidence in the complex and dynamic world of that period. I cherish the Book of Exodus, but the fact remains that it offers an almost comically myopic picture of the region, while eradicating the history and culture of so many. .

I'm not sure what you mean when you say "while eradicating the history and culture of so many."
When it comes to record in Egypt of Israel being there, there is evidence. When it comes to plagues similar to those in the Exodus story the Ipuwer Papyrus shows something like that.
When it comes to looking for evidence of destruction in the Egyptian culture and economy and etc in the 15th century BC that might not be there but there is evidence of that at other times in Egypt and so the problem might be with an inaccurate chronology of Egypt.
David Rohl's chronology ideas are controversial but even though he is an agnostic, he does take the history in the Bible seriously. Other Egyptologists also have ideas that the chronology is wrong, David is not the only one.
Anyway I have probably posted these 2 videos before here but they are interesting when it comes to the timing of the Exodus and evidence of Israel being in Egypt etc.




I have read some ways that have been tried to get around the difficulty of the numbers of people.
Example: How many Israelites left Egypt in the exodus? | GotQuestions.org
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
Is what apologetics is probably telling you.
I just read about this on an apologists site, he says:

"
But liberal critical scholars don’t believe Moses existed. They believe the Jews made up Moses and the Old Testament stories around 586 BC. There’s no way a guy named Moses could have written down the Law they say because Hebrew didn’t exist as a written language yet.

This little tablet delivers a HUGE blow to that theory because it contains a very early form of Hebrew called proto-Hebrew.

And if the early dates are accurate, it shows that Moses himself could be the author of the Torah just as the Bible describes"


Again, couple issues and more examples of apologetics bending the truth.
It's also called proto-Canaanite language. Hmm, he forgot that, or denial-ed it out of existence. Because that shows that the Israelites DID INDEED emerge from Canaanite cities like archaeologists have been saying and NOT FROM EGYPT like Exodus says.

NExt, no one says Moses couldn't write the law down in Hebrew because Hebrew didn't exist?? It's because Moses is a myth. Archaic Hebrew DID exist at the turn of the millenia and is used in some early scripture like Exodus.
Proto-Canaanite is not standard Hebrew and that was not around for a long time after this find. Not only is it not a "blow to the theory" but it doesn't help anything because this suggests even Archaic Hebrew wasn't yet invented?

Those curses were very common. Yahweh was their deity from the beginning (his consort was Ashera, I don't see any apologetics mentioning that....)so there is nothing unusual here? The Israelites, Judahites and so on were a people? Stuff will be found?

An ancient curse in proto-Canaanite means Moses "could have" written the Torah? What? Although even if there was a leader named Moses who the Egyptian myths were placed on, so what? Yes the Jewish people has leaders. So did the Canaanites. Doesn't mean EL is the supreme God of everything?

I don't know what you mean by "theological suppositions for a bunch of lies"? OT theology is nothing new and extremely similar to all Gods prior. In all aspects. Hebrew Bible Professor
Francesca Stavrakopoulou demonstrates this in her latest book.
Scholars are certain the 1st 5 books written after Babylonian exile.

You should listen to what the archaeologists etc actually say about it.
The thing about the Mt Ebal altar is that it seems to be the altar that Joshua built as told to by God. The thing about the lead curse tablet is that this is evidence that Mt Ebal altar is the Joshua altar and that the curses of the Law were read there.
Direct evidence of the conquest and dating to the appropriate time according to the writing on the tablet.
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
I'm not sure what you mean when you say "while eradicating the history and culture of so many."
We have for too long tended to view the cultures of Midian, Moab, Phonecia, etc., through the lens of the Torah. So too Northern Israel.

When it comes to record in Egypt of Israel being there, there is evidence.
What evidence did you have in mind?

When it comes to plagues similar to those in the Exodus story the Ipuwer Papyrus shows something like that.
And when it comes to tornados in Kansas the evidence is abundant. Furthermore, human history is laced with plagues and "plagues similar to those iin the Exodus story" is a laughably wishy-washy category whose worth is limited to that of serving as fodder for confirmation bias.

As for the Ipuwer Papyrus ...

The Ipuwer Papyrus has been dated no earlier than the Nineteenth Dynasty, around 1250 BCE[1][5] but it is now agreed that the text itself is much older, and dated back to the Middle Kingdom, though no earlier than the late Twelfth Dynasty.[2] The Admonitions is considered the world's earliest known treatise on political ethics, suggesting that a good king is one who controls unjust officials, thus carrying out the will of the gods.[6] It is a textual lamentation, close to Sumerian City Laments and to Egyptian laments for the dead, using the past (the destruction of Memphis at the end of the Old Kingdom) as a gloomy backdrop to an ideal future.[7]

... Ipuwer has often been put forward in popular literature as confirmation of the biblical account of the Exodus, most notably because of its statement that "the river is blood" and its frequent references to servants running away. This assertion has not gained acceptance among scholars. There are disparities between Ipuwer and the narrative in the Book of Exodus, such as that the papyrus describes the Asiatics as arriving in Egypt rather than leaving. The papyrus' statement that the "river is blood" phrase may refer to the red sediment colouring the Nile during disastrous floods, or simply be a poetic image of turmoil.[10]

In other words:
  1. The lament genre was relatively common.
  2. The circa 1250 BCE consensus date for the papyrus itself comes after the date championed by you for the Exodus.
  3. The Middle Kingdom consensus date for composition is significantly earlier than the date championed by you for the Exodus.
  4. The so-called parallels that inspire you are minimal, ambiguous, or wrong.
The Ipuwer Papyrus is noteworthy only because you very much want it to be so.

I... the problem might be with an inaccurate chronology of Egypt.
David Rohl's chronology ideas are controversial but even though he is an agnostic, he does take the history in the Bible seriously. Other Egyptologists also have ideas that the chronology is wrong, David is not the only one.

From Wikipedia: New Chronology (Rohl) # Reception By Evangelicals ...

In December 1999, the Dutch language internet journal Bijbel, Geschiedenis en Archeologie (Bible, History and Archaeology) devoted space to a debate about Rohl's New Chronology. According to evangelical scholar, J.G. van der Land, editor of the journal, Rohl's time-line resolves some archaeological anomalies surrounding ancient Egypt, but creates conflicts with other areas that make it untenable.[45] His arguments were then countered by Peter van der Veen and Robert Porter.[46][47] In the final article in the issue, van der Land identified some new issues for Rohl's chronology arising from recent finds in Assyrian letters.[48]

Following link-48 one arrives here. It begins ...

On top of the evidence already given in our previous articles 'Pharaohs and the Bible', and 'Rohl's new chronology does not accommodate the Philistines', we here present new proof that Rohl's chronology is really untenable.​

It summarizes ...

In David Rohl's proposed new chronology Adad-nirari I, Salmanassar I and Tukulti-ninurta I of Assyria, together with the Hittite kings Hattusilis III and Tuthalyas IV, would have lived between about 950 and 850 B.C. This cannot be correct, however, since Assyria was ruled by other kings during that period. Letters from Babu-ahu-iddina, a chancellor under the above named three Assyrian kings, and drafts of letters written to him by the above Hittite kings prove this. Therefore, Rohl's proposed chronology cannot possibly be correct.​

...


...
 

joelr

Well-Known Member
You should listen to what the archaeologists etc actually say about it.
The thing about the Mt Ebal altar is that it seems to be the altar that Joshua built as told to by God. The thing about the lead curse tablet is that this is evidence that Mt Ebal altar is the Joshua altar and that the curses of the Law were read there.
Direct evidence of the conquest and dating to the appropriate time according to the writing on the tablet.


This video is from the same website? An organization that believes in creationism. A fundamentalist group. All non-fundamentalists are asking for a peer-reviewed paper. Where is that?
The non-fundamental archaeologists didn't think it was an alter. Wow, what a surprise. The "evidence" is not he Joshua altar at all? That's what they want you to believe for donations and rallying fundamentalists.

"Many archaeologists did not accept the identification of the site as an altar or its identification with Joshua's altar."

"Israel Finkelstein claimed that "it is clear that the description of the construction of the Mount Ebal altar by Joshua reflects a later reality - and historically it is difficult to accept that there was a central worship site of the early Israelites at such an early date as Zertal suggested."[23] To strengthen his claim, Finkelstein added that the identification is uncertain because "there are considerable difficulties in identifying the main structure as an altar: the difference between this structure and other Israelite altars"; However, Finkelstein believes that this is indeed a ritual site.[24] Benjamin Mazar was also of the opinion that this was a ritual site.[25] Nadav Ne'eman suggested identifying the site with the ritual site of Shechem during the early Iron Age."

And then we get the typical fundamentalist apologist complaint "oh you are not a believer so you must be wrong" as if that makes any sense? If it doesn't look like an altar it might not be? He's basically saying oh you don't have the cognative bias we all have so you can't be correct??

"Zertal attacked Finkelstein's critique, arguing that it stemmed from his preconceived rejection of the historicity of the Bible, "

Right because it's always that you reject the Bible and not because you simply don't believe the findings are of a temple? It can't be that simple? No, it's always a weird attack on non-belief? Ridiculous. Get me out of here.

"Precautionary archaeological indicators suggest that a peer-reviewed academic process of publishing is required before ascertaining how old and how valid this find is. Certain academics suggest that this makes this find a “bit off” or symptomatic of an overdeveloped imagination."

Yes, highly likely considering the source.
One guy asked if the stone "burned" people because of the curse??
Great. I'm sure Islam has lots of finds that prove Gabrielle visited Muhammad or some sort of supernatural artifact. This stuff is candy for people who like to believe in wu.
 
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