Egyptian exodus proof or slavery?

[Brian2]

May it be possible for u to provide links to the evidence at 1400 bce?I would be thankful.

Jericho imo is an important starting point in researching this. Here is a site with some info and a video and various links that might help.
Carbon 14 Dating at Jericho - Associates for Biblical Research

When you want other evidence other than this Jericho evidence ask and I'm sure I could get some.

 

[joelr]

Thx. The idea of an adopted national story seems to have two anchors.1. no evidence for exodus from egypt. 2. No evidence for violent capture of israel. The first is well taken. The second seems to be based on the absence of archaeological evidence for large.scale violence. Is there NO evidence or LESS evidence of such violence? Your discussion seemed to say there is limited evidence.
Evidence for the first point is available plenty from Indus valley. That would make the national story real.

Well there is a 3rd point as well. It's in a book of fictional mythology. The previous book is a recasting of Mesopotamian and Babylonian tales and Moses is accepted as a literary creation.

 

[joelr]

There is no need to posit acontradiction between history and beyond. There may have been lapses of memory but to say that all history is made up is not correct because we do not look for the evidence at the right place. It is like denying ww2 because there is no evidence of war in South America

It's not like denying ww2. It's like denying the Quran. Which isn't true. There are some historical elements but this type of literature is literally mythology. The stories teach lessons, feature fictional deities and often events and have no obligation to record anything accurately. That isn't the goal. It's to teach laws and tell tales about their deity. Exodus gives them a foundation identity. A dramatic escape from tyrants with help from a God who showed them the way and used his power to help them. It provides identity and gives a feeling of hope that a magic warrior being is on their side.

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

Jericho imo is an important starting point in researching this. Here is a site with some info and a video and various links that might help.
Carbon 14 Dating at Jericho - Associates for Biblical Research

When you want other evidence other than this Jericho evidence ask and I'm sure I could get some.

A dramatic escape from tyrants with help from a God who showed them the way and used his power to help them. It provides identity and gives a feeling of hope that a magic warrior being is on their side.

I agree. But cannot deny historicity simply because it has a theological content. That would be like saying jesus did not exist because he taught love.

 

[joelr]

I agree. But cannot deny historicity simply because it has a theological content. That would be like saying jesus did not exist because he taught love.

Not really, I think it would be like saying Jesus did not really go on a shipwreck adventure with Paul in Acts. Besides that Luke is a terrible historian he seems to be doing a rewrite of the Elijah-Elisha narrative in some of the Old Testament (OT) texts of Kings, placing Paul and Jesus in the main roles instead, which obviously would have been a literary source of historical fiction.
This is from the work of Thomas Brodie.
Also Dennis MacDonald has shown that Luke also reworked fictional tales written by Homer, replacing the characters and some of the outcomes as needed to suit his literary purposes. MacDonald informs us in his The Shipwrecks of Odysseus and Paul (New Testament Studies, 45, pp. 88-107) that:

“The shipwrecks of Odysseus and Paul share nautical images and vocabulary, the appearance of a goddess or angel assuring safety, the riding of planks, the arrival of the hero on an island among hospitable strangers, the mistaking of the hero as a god, and the sending of him on his way [in a new ship].“

Overall, Acts just shares far too many features with popular adventure novels that were written during the same period, in order to lend it any trust as history. Here’s an overview of those features:

1) They all promote a particular god or religion.
2) They are all travel narratives.
3) They all involve miraculous or amazing events.
4) They all include encounters with fabulous or exotic people.
5) They often incorporate a theme of chaste couples that are separated and then reunited.
6) They all feature exciting narratives of captivities and escapes.
7) They often include themes of persecution.
8) They often include episodes involving excited crowds.
9) They often involve divine rescues from danger.
10) They often have divine revelations which are integral to the plot

Anyway back to Exodus, the previous chapter is a complete myth. The chapter after, Leviticus starts with 5 pages of instructions on animal sacrifice then starts blending laws with more rules for animal sacrifice. Then we get Numbers where a bunch of people complain to Yahweh and he burns them to death. Then they were hungry so Moses prayed and Yahweh gave them quail. They complained so.....plague. A great plague. Exodus is not a history book. It's a story. A fictional story.

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

Leviticus starts with 5 pages of instructions on animal sacrifice then starts blending laws with more rules for animal sacrifice

Why is that a myth?

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

Then we get Numbers where a bunch of people complain to Yahweh and he burns them to death.

I understand yahweh as the collective unconscious .Cu.. They complained to their own cu. Their cu activated events leading to deaths. Something like telepathy. Or Jung's collective.

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

Then they were hungry so Moses prayed and Yahweh gave them quail.

Yes they got quail. Why is that a myth?

 

[River Sea]

Modern Hebrew is derived from ancient Hebrew. In ancient Hebrew two distinct scripts were used for different types of texts.

The following video may help about the two scripts that were used in ancient Israeli/Jewish writings.

If you are asking about Torah Scrolls, they are not called manuals, the following video may help.

Because Torath Mosheh Jews are responsible for influencing modern Hebrew. When Modern State of Israel Hebrew was being developed about 90% of it came from ancient Hebrew that already existed for thousands of years. I.e. they didn't invent a new language they simply modernized what already existed for thousands of years.

For example, below is a copy of a Dead Scroll from more than 2,200 years ago. I think we can agree that 2,200 years ago is ancient so as you can Hebrew from 2,200 years ago and modern Hebrew script look similar.

View attachment 67020




Paleo-Hebrew, as a script, was used for certain types of documents in Ancient Israel but it was not the only script used. In fact, if you look through History you will see that different fragments of texts found from about 3,000 years have different methods of writing the letter you are referencing. My above videos discuss this.



The below is how the name of the part of the Torah you are asking about.

View attachment 67021

The text, for Torath Mosheh Jews, has always been called Shemoth. It is named after the first few words that start off this part of the Torah. The name "exodus" did not come from Torath Mosheh Jews. It came later Hellonized translators into Greek, and not from Hebrew.



See my above response.

@Ehav4Ever

I finally understand. Thank you for clarifying that it is a script rather than a manual.

I now understand that modern Hebrew letters is used in scripts. Torath Mosheh Jews are responsible for influencing modern Hebrew.

What is it like being a Torath Mosheh Jew living in Israel?

What was it like for you to go through the Mitzvah process?

Either transcribe the script or produce an official Torah scroll that can be read.
which one did you do and what was that like for you?
That must really feel an achievement when producing a scroll that takes a year and then read it. I saw in your video it's easier to transcribe only and not produce a scroll.

Can a male who has had a brit shalom be able to have a bar mitzvah? And be acknowledged to all that he's in the covenant? Or who will reject this? Does one have to have a brit to be in a covenant or can males not have a brit and still be in a covenant?

Brit shalom keeps the male intact (no circumcision), brit mitzvah (circumcision).

What type of Brit did Moses have, or no brit? How much did the Pharaoh affect Moses and Aaron?
How come Moses was afraid to talk, that Aaron had to help Moses talk?
How much do people in Israel talk about Moses, a lot, only sometimes or hardly at all?

Can you give me name that you advice to see, I had a hard time spelling his name, who compares languages, in this video starting at 37:52
Torath Mosheh on Semitic Scripts and Languages (Corrected)

Did you find this script online and if you did, can you show me where online? I'm talking about the actual gray background black letters., this type of script., that you show. I've seen other people have this gray background with black letters too. Or did you take a photo., but then how come other people also share this type of scroll with gray background and black letters, did they take photos too of scripts too., but where, library or, how does one find online?

 

[River Sea]

I understand yahweh as the collective unconscious .Cu.. They complained to their own cu. Their cu activated events leading to deaths. Something like telepathy. Or Jung's collective.

When Hebrews thought through laws, how did this affect cu?
How could they prevent cu activated events that led to deaths?

Can you give an example of how they could?

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

When Hebrews thought through laws, how did this affect cu?
How could they prevent cu activated events that led to deaths?

11 Natural Disasters That Led to Wars

I am familiar with the east pakistan event. Maybe the cu of those people brought a storm that led to their liberation.

 

[joelr]

Why is that a myth?

I didn't say Leviticus was a myth. It's just someone making up fictional rules for a fictional deity about how to prepare different animal sacrifices for the deity.
I mean, if you think some ancient deity actually told people how to prepare animal sacrifices for him because he likes the food prepared a certain way then I don't know what to tell you. Are all stories about deities like Zeus also true?

 

[joelr]

I understand yahweh as the collective unconscious .Cu.. They complained to their own cu. Their cu activated events leading to deaths. Something like telepathy. Or Jung's collective.

Right except can you demonstrate some evidence for telepathy? It has been studied many times in a lab setting. It has been studied by the military in the 70's. It's only ever performed in street tricks by magicians and Indian magic by Indian Gurus who will only perform it on stage in a particular setting. It's also a known trick. None of those performers ever agreed to allow a team to investigate or do it in a lab setting.

Jung's collective isn't a proven phenomenon that can manipulate physical reality.

 

[joelr]

Yes they got quail. Why is that a myth?

The point here is Exodus is surrounded by Genesis which is borrowed mythology and the next books are clearly fictional stories about how the sky-father God wants his sacrifice and how he burned and plagued people who complained. This would be just straight up fiction. So why does Exodus need be a historical event. There is no word in Hebrew for history or writing history.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

What is it like being a Torath Mosheh Jew living in Israel?

It is good.

What was it like for you to go through the Mitzvah process?

If by "Mitzvah process" you mean what is it like for Torath Mosheh Jews to keep the mitzvoth of the Torah. It is good because we do mitzvoth as a community.

Either transcribe the script or produce an official Torah scroll that can be read.
which one did you do and what was that like for you?
That must really feel an achievement when producing a scroll that takes a year and then read it. I saw in your video it's easier to transcribe only and not produce a scroll.

In community Torah scrolls are copied in the way shown in this video.

Can a male who has had a brit shalom be able to have a bar mitzvah?

This video should be able to help you understand about what you asked about a bar mitzvah.

Can you give me name that you advice to see, I had a hard time spelling his name, who compares languages, in this video starting at 37:52

His name is Bahadar Alast. His Youtube channel can be found at the following link.

https://www.youtube.com/c/BahadorAlast

Did you find this script online and if you did, can you show me where online? I'm talking about the actual gray background black letters., this type of script., that you show. I've seen other people have this gray background with black letters too. Or did you take a photo., but then how come other people also share this type of scroll with gray background and black letters, did they take photos too of scripts too., but where, library or, how does one find online?

It is a picture of a part of a Torah scroll. The link to the site is:

תיקון קוראים ספר תורה למסורת תימן | הרב אברהם משיח, רו''ח גבעת שמואל

The following are a few pictures of different types of Torah scrolls from different Jewish communities.

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

I mean, if you think some ancient deity actually told people how to prepare animal sacrifices for him because he likes the food prepared a certain way then I don't know what to tell you. Are all stories about deities like Zeus also true?

I do not know about Zeus. Not studied. But I do know about deities. Deities are personification of collective unconscious of a group of people. Thus, the unconscious desire of a group of people gets personified as words of the deity. Nothing fictional about it. In this case the Hebrews may have thought that it would be better to prepare the meat in a particular way. This thought came back to them as saying of the deity.

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

Jung's collective isn't a proven phenomenon that can manipulate physical reality.

I agree. Jung's collective does not manipulate a physical reality. It only influences the psychic unconscious of the participants who, in turn, MAY or MAY NOT manipulate physical reality.

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

. So why does Exodus need be a historical event.

Because we have geographical and archaeological evidences. Briefly.

1 The parting of the Yam Suf matches with the flow of the Indus River being blocked by eruption of a mud volcano upstream of the point of crossing.

2 The bitter waters are found in the area near Kabul.

3 Second Yam Suf matches with Hamun-e-Mashel water body

4 Sinai volcano matches with Taftan.

5 There exists an ancient place name ‘Paran” near Isfahan.

6 Kings Highway matches with the Silk Route from Tehran to Baghdad.

7 Mount Hor matches with Kangavar.

8 Third Yam Suf matches with Shatt al-Arab.
So why should we consider it to be a myth merely because telepathy is not "proven." Let us remember that the existence of love, fear and awe is also not proven.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

Paleo-Hebrew Dictionary that's the old H correct, how come I don't see that in your original manual, can you help me with this? Thank you

Your thoughts about this?

The following may help you.

Yemenite vs Samaritan vs Modern Hebrew (Can they understand each other?)

 

[River Sea]

How come I can't edit this., it's a mistake

Brit shalom keeps the male intact (no circumcision), brit mitzvah (circumcision).

A mistake I want to edit this, where's the edit button in older post. I need to edit one word

It's Brit shalom keeps the male intact (no circumcision), Brit Milah (circumcision)

Not brit Mitzvah

Where's the edit button, so I can edit that

Newer post I can edit., older post I can't edit., cause no place to click edit.

Ha ha I only want to change one word lol