Egyptian Salafi extremists kill 4 Shiites celebrating Imam Mahdi birthday

[Aamer]

I see the Sunnis and Shias attacking each other here. Sunnis accusing Shia of muta marriages and Shia accusing Sunnis of blowing themselves up and spreading hate and violence. Well you're both right. But it doesn't mean every Sunni and Shia are doing it. On a matter of beliefs though. I will say that Mutah marriage is not supported by Quran and seems quite obviously un-Islamic. Same goes for beating yourself up physically on 10 Muharram. However Assad does have a point when he says Abu Hurairah's Hadith narrations are fantasies. Sunnis will never accept it because they have been brainwashed and out of their hatred for Shias. But if you really sit down and analyze the Hadith narrated by Abu Hurairah, they contain some of the most ridiculous, absurd, disrespectful and perverted content imaginable. And guess who narrated way more "Sahih" Hadith than anyone else? You guessed it.. Abu Hurairah (father of the kitten in Arabic). So Sunnis don't really obey Allah and his messenger, they obey Allah and the father of the kitten. When the father of the kitten says Prophet Muhammad ordered the killing of every dog, somehow my logic tells me it wasn't the Prophet who said this. It's just the desire of the father of the kitten. So what's worse, temporary marriage or killing every dog you see? Flip a coin.

 

[ignition]

they contain some of the most ridiculous, absurd, disrespectful and perverted content imaginable.

That's exactly how I see usul al kafi.

But anyhow since you're a "Qur'anist" Muslim, what are these verses referring to, do you have any clue at all and any evidence for your understanding? Pick any verse from the list and explain what it is it is talking about without the use of any hadith or any narration.

33/26. And those of the people of the Scripture who backed them Allah brought them down from their forts and cast terror into their hearts, a group you killed, and a group you made captives.

33/27. And He caused you to inherit their lands, and their houses, and their riches, and a land which you had not trodden. And Allah is Able to do all things.

59/5. What you cut down of the palm-trees, or you left them standing on their stems, it was by Leave of Allah, and in order that He might disgrace the sinners.

59/6. And what Allah gave as booty to His Messenger from them, for which you made no expedition with either cavalry or camelry....

59/11. Have you not observed the hypocrites who say to their friends among the people of the Scripture who disbelieve: "If you are expelled, we indeed will go out with you, and we shall never obey any one against you, and if you are attacked, we shall indeed help you." But Allah is Witness, that they verily, are liars.

59/14. They fight not against you even together, except in fortified townships, or from behind walls. Their enmity among themselves is very great. You would think they were united, but their hearts are divided, that is because they are a people who understand not.

 

[Aamer]

It's interesting that you left out 33:21 & 59:7 (two of the favorite verses Sectarians use to justify Hadith). 33:21-27 are talking about the exemplary courage of Prophet Muhammad on the battle field and how the believers were rewarded for their faith. I know where you're going with this. The historical details aren't mentioned. I don't think it matters. The Quran isn't a history book. There are lessons of faith here that we can learn from. In 33:21, Allah says that Muhammad is a good example for us to follow. He then speaks of his faith and courage. That's the lesson to be learned here. Instead, people have taken 33:21 to mean we should mimic his habits, clothing style, diet, walking, sleeping, even urination habits. That's missing the whole point of the verse, isn't it? Furthermore, Allah says in 60:4, 6 that Abraham is also a good example for us to follow. Under this logic, shouldn't you go and create a set of Hadith books about Abraham too?

Sura 59 is cut and dry. God is speaking of spoils of war and that the Prophet is in charge of distributing the wealth. The purpose of this is to keep the powerful and rich from monopolizing all the wealth. It's meant to protect the poor and weak and has nothing to do with spiritual advice or creation of Hadith books. What does 59:7 mean to you (or your scholars I should say since you are not allowed to think for yourself)?

[59:7] Whatever God provided to His messenger from the people of the townships, then it shall be to God and His messenger; for the relatives, the orphans, the poor, and the wayfarer. Thus, it will not remain monopolized by the rich among you. You may take what the messenger gives you, but do not take what he withholds you from taking. Be aware of God, for God is mighty in retribution.

And can you also explain what the verses below are in reference to?

[68:35] Should We treat the ones who peacefully surrendered the same as those who are criminals?

[68:36] What is wrong with you, how do you judge?

[68:37] Or do you have another book which you study?

[68:38] In it, you can find what you wish?

 

[ignition]

I know where you're going with this. The historical details aren't mentioned. I don't think it matters.

It's very simple. I asked you to explain what ANY of the verses I mentioned is talking about, you have no idea what it is talking about or referring to, am I right? The fact that you don't think understanding the Qur'an "matters" really says it all. Need I say more? No.

This is an open challenge and you're welcome to try and explain those verses without the hadith any time.

 

[Aamer]

It's very simple. I asked you to explain what ANY of the verses I mentioned is talking about, you have no idea what it is talking about or referring to, am I right? The fact that you don't think understanding the Qur'an "matters" really says it all. Need I say more? No.

This is an open challenge and you're welcome to try and explain those verses without the hadith any time.

I explained the whole section to you according to my understanding. There's no point in picking one verse out without reading what comes before and after it. It's like picking up a book and reading a chapter in the middle without reading the beginning or the end. It won't make sense. You don't however need another book to explain the one you're reading. Your challenge makes no sense.

 

[ignition]

I explained the whole section to you according to my understanding. There's no point in picking one verse out without reading what comes before and after it. It's like picking up a book and reading a chapter in the middle without reading the beginning or the end. It won't make sense. You don't however need another book to explain the one you're reading. Your challenge makes no sense.

33/26. And those of the people of the Scripture who backed them Allah brought them down from their forts and cast terror into their hearts, a group you killed, and a group you made captives.

33/27. And He caused you to inherit their lands, and their houses, and their riches, and a land which you had not trodden. And Allah is Able to do all things.

Who are the "people of the scripture" that the verses are referring to? It says "a group you killed...a group you made captives", so who are they? And the Muslims apparently inherited "their lands, their houses, their riches and a land which you had not trodden". Where is this land? These are basic questions that you cannot answer and you have no hope of answering.

Again, I'm presenting an open and eternal challenge for you to explain what any of the verses I wrote are referring to

 

[Aamer]

We can guess based on historical accounts who God is talking about. But does it really matter? Is this important to our salvation?

This is one of the problems I see with sectarian Muslims. Many of them get obsessed with the details rather than paying attention to the lesson or meaning behind it. I'm not saying you do that. But I see it everywhere and focusing on details rather than the point here is another example of that.

 

[Aamer]

Hi Aamer,

Just to clarify, do you mean you don't say Salaam to angels or humans in prayer
or
You don't say Salaam to angels or humans at all?

Hey Daniel, no Salaaming (is that a word?) during Salat. Worship is for God alone. After Salat we can salaam all the angels, jinn and humans we want. I'm not saying it's 100% wrong. But to be safe I avoid it. Peace.

 

[Monotheist 101]

I see the Sunnis and Shias attacking each other here. Sunnis accusing Shia of muta marriages and Shia accusing Sunnis of blowing themselves up and spreading hate and violence. Well you're both right. But it doesn't mean every Sunni and Shia are doing it. On a matter of beliefs though. I will say that Mutah marriage is not supported by Quran and seems quite obviously un-Islamic. Same goes for beating yourself up physically on 10 Muharram. However Assad does have a point when he says Abu Hurairah's Hadith narrations are fantasies. Sunnis will never accept it because they have been brainwashed and out of their hatred for Shias. But if you really sit down and analyze the Hadith narrated by Abu Hurairah, they contain some of the most ridiculous, absurd, disrespectful and perverted content imaginable. And guess who narrated way more "Sahih" Hadith than anyone else? You guessed it.. Abu Hurairah (father of the kitten in Arabic). So Sunnis don't really obey Allah and his messenger, they obey Allah and the father of the kitten. When the father of the kitten says Prophet Muhammad ordered the killing of every dog, somehow my logic tells me it wasn't the Prophet who said this. It's just the desire of the father of the kitten. So what's worse, temporary marriage or killing every dog you see? Flip a coin.

All I wanted to point out was that, we shouldnt be the ones doing all the judging..on Allah's behalf.. I am quite certain ibn-Abd Al-Wahab wasnt the najdi devil everyones making him out to be.. Maybe he was a good man..just like maybe Abu Hurraira or Oman ibn Al Khattab or the countless others that become a target of emotions/hatred passed on down the generations for no reason..

I still disagree with your stance on regarding ALL the hadith as invalid...I am not taking them for scripture..I am only taking the good that is obvious on a moral level.. I am not a fan of cutting hands and legs (Umayad/ Arab customs).. but on studying the Quran.. I find the context of revelation neccasary to get a deeper understanding..

As for your question regarding the prayers...how do you know how many rukuhs or sujud to make..do you find that in the Quran by itself aswell? Or what to recite..does it say in the Quran that you should recite Al Fatiha every rakah? The hadith IMO arent holy but still contain alot of helpful material and lessons..and I will read them and try and find the truth in them just like I will read the Bible and try and find what is left of the truth in it...

P.S The Shia (individual) was getting on my nerves..not the whole Shia community..

 

[Aamer]

All I wanted to point out was that, we shouldnt be the ones doing all the judging..on Allah's behalf.. I am quite certain ibn-Abd Al-Wahab wasnt the najdi devil everyones making him out to be.. Maybe he was a good man..just like maybe Abu Hurraira or Oman ibn Al Khattab or the countless others that become a target of emotions/hatred passed on down the generations for no reason..

I still disagree with your stance on regarding ALL the hadith as invalid...I am not taking them for scripture..I am only taking the good that is obvious on a moral level.. I am not a fan of cutting hands and legs (Umayad/ Arab customs).. but on studying the Quran.. I find the context of revelation neccasary to get a deeper understanding..

As for your question regarding the prayers...how do you know how many rukuhs or sujud to make..do you find that in the Quran by itself aswell? Or what to recite..does it say in the Quran that you should recite Al Fatiha every rakah? The hadith IMO arent holy but still contain alot of helpful material and lessons..and I will read them and try and find the truth in them just like I will read the Bible and try and find what is left of the truth in it...

P.S The Shia (individual) was getting on my nerves..not the whole Shia community..

I never said all Hadith are invalid. I just said they're not part of Islam. I find wisdom in many sources, including country western songs. But I don't consider Garth Brooks lyric sheet to be part of Islam.

As for Salat and how many Rakat to do etc, the details aren't important. If they were important, God would have put them in the Quran. God doesn't forget, nor does he run out of words and the Quran is fully detailed and we are not allowed to add to or change his words. This is not me stating my opinion. This is in the Quran. Allah made it very clear.

But I think we're in agreement because you said you don't consider them holy. I also read the Bible and history books and Hadith to get clues about the past. But this is for my own curiosity, not because Quran is incomplete. I look at Hadith with more skepticism however than the Bible. Because I have strong reasons to believe, based on the content itself, that Hadith books were written by enemies of Islam to insult/discredit Allah, the Prophet and Muslims. I don't know that for certain but there's plenty of reasons to be suspicious. Peace.

 

[Monotheist 101]

I never said all Hadith are invalid. I just said they're not part of Islam. I find wisdom in many sources, including country western songs. But I don't consider Garth Brooks lyric sheet to be part of Islam.

How did you get from stories about the Prophet to Music? I find your approach a bit too extreme for me.. no offense intended..

As for Salat and how many Rakat to do etc, the details aren't important. If they were important, God would have put them in the Quran. God doesn't forget, nor does he run out of words and the Quran is fully detailed and we are not allowed to add to or change his words.

But in the Quran he repeatedly mentions that we should follow the messenger.

But I think we're in agreement because you said you don't consider them holy. I also read the Bible and history books and Hadith to get clues about the past. But this is for my own curiosity, not because Quran is incomplete.

The Quran is not incomplete but IMO the Hadith supplement it. and mind you not all the Hadith.. I am skeptical in my scrutiny as well.

I look at Hadith with more skepticism however than the Bible

I disagree with that outlook..for obvious reasons.

Because I have strong reasons to believe, based on the content itself, that Hadith books were written by enemies of Islam to insult/discredit Allah, the Prophet and Muslims. I don't know that for certain but there's plenty of reasons to be suspicious. Peace.

Have you looked up the science of collecting the Hadith? it is a science by itself...Please dont let your suspicions spoil the hard work of people who were maybe loved by Allah.. dont you think they would have come across the Umayyad influence in the traditions..after all the Hadith were collected after the Umayyad period..

Ill be skeptical all right but nothing compared to that of the Bible.. again bro why part take in Quranist propaganda..does the Quran ask you to be suspicious of the prophets traditions? I find that the Quranists are also following an extreme..IMO the perfect muslim is a balanced one..My disagreements with Shia's are also based on this..why get involved in slandering the Khalifas or Aisha?..Just like your getting involved with slandering Abu Hurraira (Father of Kittens, do you know who gave him that name?) and Bukhari ( he is considered a knowledgable Imam, atleast give him credit for that)..

I wish we could all just get along!!

 

[danieldemol]

...Ill be skeptical all right but nothing compared to that of the Bible...

...I wish we could all just get along!!

I personally disagree with both this attitude (on the first quoted line) and the Qur'an alone attitude of treating the hadith with more skepticism than the Bible.

To treat differing books with differing amounts of skepticism is actually unjust.

Why should the hadith be any less subject to fair and searching analysis than the Bible?

In many ways they are both the same thing anyway - that is - accounts taken from 2nd party perspectives handed down orally and recorded some time after the actual events. This is part of the reason to treat them both equally since they are similar in nature.

Also, perhaps neither of them are 100% correct, so it makes sense to use scientific methodology in the study of both of them to be as objective as possible.

Starting out with the assumption that one is mostly wrong and the other mostly right is not at all in keeping with obtaining unbiased results and likely to skew the results recieved, which I personally would see as counterproductive to your desire for all to get along.

 

[Monotheist 101]

I personally disagree with both this attitude (on the first quoted line) and the Qur'an alone attitude of treating the hadith with more skepticism than the Bible.

To treat differing books with differing amounts of skepticism is actually unjust.

Why should the hadith be any less subject to fair and searching analysis than the Bible?

In many ways they are both the same thing anyway - that is - accounts taken from 2nd party perspectives handed down orally and recorded some time after the actual events. This is part of the reason to treat them both equally since they are similar in nature.

Also, perhaps neither of them are 100% correct, so it makes sense to use scientific methodology in the study of both of them to be as objective as possible.

Starting out with the assumption that one is mostly wrong and the other mostly right is not at all in keeping with obtaining unbiased results and likely to skew the results recieved, which I personally would see as counterproductive to your desire for all to get along.

I should have rephrased that..I meant to say that I disagreed/opposed the Quran alone method of being more critical of the Hadith..came out all wrong..thanks for pointing it out tho..

I agree with your opinion on the matter.

 

[Bismillah]

As salaam alaikum,

I have been a part of the Muslim community on RF for a long time. Throughout that time I have yet to seen some of the things I have witness in this thread. I am writing this post not to argue, chastise, or humiliate anyone here. I am writing it in the hopes that it may rectify our behavior, make Allah pleased with us, and to have a dignified representation of what a Muslim is.

We our Muslims and this is what Allah says

[FONT=Verdana,Arial]All believers are but brethren. [11] Hence, [when*ever they are at odds,] make peace between your two brethren, and remain conscious of God, so that you might be graced with His mercy.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana,Arial]who spend [in His way] in time of plenty and in time of hardship, and hold in check their anger, and pardon their fellow-men because God loves the doers of good[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana,Arial]O you who have attained to faith! Avoid most guesswork [about one another] [14] for, behold, some of [such] guesswork is [in itself] a sin; and do not spy upon one another, and neither allow your*selves to speak ill of one another behind your backs. Would any of you like to eat the flesh of his dead brother? Nay, you would loathe it! And be conscious of God. Verily, God is an acceptor of repentance, a dispenser of grace![/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana,Arial]This is Allah's promise to us [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana,Arial]O you who have attained to faith! If you ever abandon your faith," [76] God will in time bring forth [in your stead] people whom He loves and who love Him - humble towards the believers, proud towards all who deny the truth: [people] who strive hard in God's cause[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana,Arial]This is the characteristic of the believers and if we are not humble towards our brothers and sisters then we risk falling into the same characteristics as those who abandon faith.

Remember what Allah has told us
[/FONT]

So when the Qur’an is recited, then listen to it and pay attention that you may receive mercy

I have created a thread in the private Islam section where we can discuss our disagreements, questions, with our Muslim brothers and sister. Some of these posts have made a mockery of the friendship and love we hold for each other and have made me feel ashamed. If any of you wish to ask and argue and provide evidences against each other, do so behind the veil with good words and desire to help your brother in your heart. This is the month of Ramadan we should strive for something better than just bickering and attacking each other all day long.

 

[Aamer]

How did you get from stories about the Prophet to Music? I find your approach a bit too extreme for me.. no offense intended..



But in the Quran he repeatedly mentions that we should follow the messenger.



The Quran is not incomplete but IMO the Hadith supplement it. and mind you not all the Hadith.. I am skeptical in my scrutiny as well.



I disagree with that outlook..for obvious reasons.



Have you looked up the science of collecting the Hadith? it is a science by itself...Please dont let your suspicions spoil the hard work of people who were maybe loved by Allah.. dont you think they would have come across the Umayyad influence in the traditions..after all the Hadith were collected after the Umayyad period..

Ill be skeptical all right but nothing compared to that of the Bible.. again bro why part take in Quranist propaganda..does the Quran ask you to be suspicious of the prophets traditions? I find that the Quranists are also following an extreme..IMO the perfect muslim is a balanced one..My disagreements with Shia's are also based on this..why get involved in slandering the Khalifas or Aisha?..Just like your getting involved with slandering Abu Hurraira (Father of Kittens, do you know who gave him that name?) and Bukhari ( he is considered a knowledgable Imam, atleast give him credit for that)..

I wish we could all just get along!!

Monotheist,
I am somewhat familiar with the science of Hadith. I used to be a hard core Sunni for many years. Then I read the Quran with my own eyes. Before I get in to specifics. I ask you... Under who's authority did Bukhari, Moslem, etc compile the Hadith? Under Gods authority? No. They weren't prophets or messengers. Under Prophet Muhammad's authority? No. He wad long gone from this Earth. As far as giving Bukhari and Abu Hurairah respect... The writings out there attributed to their names deserve no respect. Not if you love God and respect his Prophet. Now perhaps they never narrated or compiled this garbage. Perhaps someone used their names in order to cause fitnah. Then they are innocent. But whoever wrote this filth about God, Islam and the Prophet, deserves no respect or defending from true believers. Whoever compiled the book titled "Sahih" Bukhari is an enemy of Allah and an enemy of Prophet Muhammad. Whoever narrated under the name Abu Hurairah is not worthy of any respect. I have discussed this with you before. But I will post examples of why I speak so strongly against these writings, so that someone who is reading this thread and is unaware, may know the truth, if Allah wills. I for one will not sit back and watch as the entire Muslim world buys into disrespectful lies about Gods noble messenger. If even one person has a sincere heart and can see through the lies they've been told, it will be a blessing. I'll post examples shortly. Then let everyone decide if they still want to defend/make excuses for"Sahih" Bukhari and Moslem and Abu Hurairah or not. Peace.

 

[Monotheist 101]

Monotheist,
I am somewhat familiar with the science of Hadith. I used to be a hard core Sunni for many years. Then I read the Quran with my own eyes. Before I get in to specifics. I ask you... Under who's authority did Bukhari, Moslem, etc compile the Hadith? Under Gods authority? No. They weren't prophets or messengers. Under Prophet Muhammad's authority? No. He wad long gone from this Earth. As far as giving Bukhari and Abu Hurairah respect... The writings out there attributed to their names deserve no respect. Not if you love God and respect his Prophet. Now perhaps they never narrated or compiled this garbage. Perhaps someone used their names in order to cause fitnah. Then they are innocent. But whoever wrote this filth about God, Islam and the Prophet, deserves no respect or defending from true believers. Whoever compiled the book titled "Sahih" Bukhari is an enemy of Allah and an enemy of Prophet Muhammad. Whoever narrated under the name Abu Hurairah is not worthy of any respect. I have discussed this with you before. But I will post examples of why I speak so strongly against these writings, so that someone who is reading this thread and is unaware, may know the truth, if Allah wills. I for one will not sit back and watch as the entire Muslim world buys into disrespectful lies about Gods noble messenger. If even one person has a sincere heart and can see through the lies they've been told, it will be a blessing. I'll post examples shortly. Then let everyone decide if they still want to defend/make excuses for"Sahih" Bukhari and Moslem and Abu Hurairah or not. Peace.

I almost bought what you were selling regarding the Hadith.. the ones narrated by Aisha..about personal things..you asked why Aisha would share it with outsiders? Well I didnt just sit back and accept it, I went out asked questions, regarding most of the Hadith you qouted in your email.. turns out it wasnt the Hadith that were lacking, but my understanding of them. IMO you are still not taking a balanced approach.. Have you considered for a second that..maybe you dont understand them and are just promoting the Quranist ideology..

Again I will say, the Hadith that I find confusing I skip them.. If you donot reject ALL the hadith, than IMO you arent really Quran alone Muslim..you seem to have it out for Bukhari, have you cross referenced with the other compilers? Do you think non of them had the wonderful "brains" that you or other Quranists have and just fell for it? Again bro I will thank you for opening my eyes on this issue, but I realize on a personal level that I can't actively take part in slandering people who arent there to defend themselves anymore..I find it ammusing that most Quranists think that all the past Sunni generations were "brainwashed" and didnt pose the same questions as you?

 

[Aamer]

Before we look to the Hadith, lets first see what Allah says in the Quran. Was there a need for Bukhari, Moslem, etc. to create a "supplementary" set of holy books? Should Hadith be considered part of Islam? Are we allowed to follow any other book? Did Quran need help to be completed?

“The Word of your Lord is complete in truth and in justice” 6:115

“They almost diverted you from the revelations we have given you. They wanted you to fabricate something else, in order to consider you a friend. If it were not that we strengthened you, you almost leaned towards them just a little bit. Had you done that, we would have doubled the retribution for you in this life, and after death, and you would have found no one to help you against us” 17:73-75

Throughout the Quran, we are told that the only revelation received by Muhammad from God was the Quran (see 4:105, 5:48, 6:19, 6:92, 6:155, 29:47, 16:89, 39:2, 76:23).

Is Quran complete and fully detailed? Should we add "supplementary" hadith books to complete Islam?

”Shall I seek other than God as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed?” 6:114
”The word of your Lord is complete, in truth and justice. Nothing shall abrogate His words. He is the Hearer, the Omniscient” 6:115

”This is not fabricated ‘hadith’; this (Quran) confirms all previous scriptures, provides the details of everything, and is a guidance and mercy for those who believe” 12:111

”We have revealed to you this book to provide explanations for everything, and guidance and mercy and good news for the submitters” 16:89

The messenger said, "My Lord, my people have deserted this Quran." 25:30

"We have permitted the enemies of every prophet human and jinn devils to inspire in each other fancy words, in order to deceive. Had your Lord willed, they would not have done it. You shall disregard them and their fabrications." 6:112

"These are GOD's revelations that we recite to you truthfully. In which Hadith other than GOD and His revelations do they believe?" 45:6

"Which Hadith, other than this, do they uphold?" 77:50

"Among the people, there are those who uphold baseless Hadith, and thus divert others from the path of GOD without knowledge, and take it in vain. These have incurred a shameful retribution." 31:6

So Allah is very clear. Will you seek the truth and be willing to let go of attachments to false beliefs, or will you ignore Gods words and make excuses to continue to follow what you WANT to believe?

"And when our revelations are recited to the one of them, he turns away in arrogance as if he never heard them, as if his ears are deaf. Promise him a painful retribution." 31:7

"This is to let the minds of those who do not believe in the Hereafter listen to such fabrications, and accept them, and thus expose their real convictions." 6:113
Now lets talk about the Hadith that are being followed alongside, often more than Quran. To show the inconsistency in hadith, I will use the hadith themselves...

Did Prophet Muhammad authorize these hadith so you could "obey him"?

(1) Ibn Saeed Al-Khudry reported that the messenger of God had said,

"Do not write anything from me except Quran. Anyone who wrote anything other than the Quran shall erase it." [Ahmed, Vol. 1, Page 171, and Sahih Moslim, Zuhd, Book 42, Number 7147]


Some hadith scholars tried to imply that Muhammed changed his view about writing the hadiths. However, the following hadith, which was reported 30 years after the death of the Prophet, confirms that the prophet Muhammed never authorised the writing of the hadiths since the time he told his followers not to write but the Quran..

(2) From Ibn Hanbal;

Zayd Ibn Thabit (The Prophet's closest revelation writer) visited the Khalifa Mu'aawiyah (more than 30 years after the Prophet's death), and told him a story about the Prophet. Mu'aawiyah liked the story and ordered someone to write it down. But Zayd said. " the messenger of God ordered us never to write anything of his hadith".

(3) The famous book, "Ulum Al-Hadith" by Ibn Al-Salah, reports a hadith by Abu Hurayra in which Abu Hurayra said the Messenger of God came out to us while we were writing his hadiths and said; "What are you writing?" We said, "hadiths that we hear from you, messenger of God." He said, "A book other than the book of God?" We said, "Should we talk about you?" He said, Talk about me, that would be fine, but those who will lie will go to Hell. Abu Hurayra said, we collected what we wrote of hadiths and burned them in fire.

(4) In the famous book, "Taq-yeed Al-Ilm", Abu Hurayra said, the Messenger of God was informed that some people are writing his hadiths. He took to the pulpit of the mosque and said, "What are these books that I heard you wrote? I am just a human being. Anyone who has any of these writings should bring it here. Abu Hurayra said we collected all these and burned them in fire.

(5) Ibn Hanbal in his Musnad book, narrates a hadith in which Abdullah Ibn Omar said, "the Messenger of God one day came out to us as if he was going to depart us soon and said, "When I depart you (die), hold to the book of God, prohibit what it prohibits and accept as halal what it makes halal."

(6) Again, in the book "Taq-yeed Al-Ilm", Abu Saeed Al-Khudry said, " I asked the Messenger of God a permission to write his hadiths, but he refused to give me a permission."

Should we give respect to the "great" Imams who put this into their books? Who would write this... An enemy or follower of the Prophet?

"Narrated Anas: The Prophet used to go round (have sexual relations with) all his wives in one night, and he had nine wives."

What does this have to do with obeying the Prophet?

In Bukhari, Volume 8, Book 82, Number 796 we read:
"A group of people from the Oreyneh and Oqayelh tribes came to the Prophet to embrace Islam, the Prophet advised them to drink the urine of camels! Later on when they killed the Prophet's shepherd, the Prophet seized them, gouged out their eyes, cut their hands and legs, and left them thirst in the desert to die."

Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64:
Aisha narrated:
that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).

The child marriage has already been proven wrong by multiple historical sources (I can forward my post on this if you haven't seen it), yet it's in Bukhari's "Sahih" hadith collection.

Contadictions in "Sahih" Hadith

(1) Do not cross your leg

Gaber Ibn Abdullah said, "The Messenger of God prohibited a man from crossing one leg over the other while lying down on his back " Moslem

(2) Cross your leg

Ebada Ibn Tameem said , his father said that he saw the Messenger of God lying down on his back in the mosque while crossing his legs." Sahih Moslem

(3) Do not drink standing up

Sahih Moslem, Book 23, Number 5017:
"Abu Hurayra said, the Messenger of God said, "Do not drink while standing up, if someone forgot and did it, he should vomit what he drank."

(4) Drink standing up

Ibn Abbas said, "The Messenger of God drank from the water of Zamzam while standing up...." Sahih Moslem.

(5) Urinate in a standing position

Sahih Moslem, Book 2, Number 522:
"The Prophet urinated in a standing position"

(6) Do not urinate in a standing position

"The Prophet never urinated in a standing position." Hanbel.

More proof the absurd Hadith are not part of Islam...

Malik's Muwatta, Book 54, Number 54.5.13:
"Malik related from Nafi from Abdullah Ibn Umar that the Messenger of God ordered all dogs (other than sheepdogs or hunting dogs) to be killed".

Ibn Hanbal's collection: The Messenger of God said:
" You shall kill all black Dogs, because they are devils."

Yet the People of the Cave in Quran had a dog with them. Hmm...

Sahih Muslim and Sahih Bukhari:
Abu Hurayra said: "It was mentioned by the Messenger of God that a man slept the whole night (did not do his prayer). He said, Satan had urinated in his ears."

Sahih Muslim and Bukhari:
Abu Hurayra said, the Prophet said:

"When the call for prayer is made, Satan turns around to leave while farting very loudly so that he would not hear the Azan (call for prayer), When Azan is finished Satan returns back......"

Sunan Abu Dawud, Book 13, Number 2453:
Abu Said Al-Khudari said: the messenger of God said:
"A woman should not fast except with her husband's permission."

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 8, Book 73, Number 132:
"Abdulla Ibn Omar said the Messenger of God once saw sputum on the Quibla wall , he cleaned it then came to the people and told them if you are praying do not spit to the front of you, because that is where God is, when you are praying."

Women should breast feed adult men!

Sahih Muslim, Book 8, Number 3425:
'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Salim, the freed slave of Abu Hadhaifa, lived with him and his family in their house.She (i.e. the daughter of Suhail came to Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) and said: Salim has attained (puberty) as men attain, and he understands what they understand, and he enters our house freely, I, however, perceive that something (rankles) in the heart of Abu Hudhaifa, whereupon Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) said to her: Suckle him and you would become unlawful for him, and (the rankling) which Abu Hudhaifa feels in his heart will disappear. She returned and said: So I suckled him, and what (was there) in the heart of Abu Hudhaifa disappeared.

Astagfir'Allah!! Disgusting! Such filth! I think I'll stop here and I didn't even get to the "Sahih" hadith which talk about the Prophet of God having sperm stains on his clothes or Gods noble messenger kissing his wives while fasting. Enough of this filth. Is this how you "obey" the messenger? Peace!

 

[Monotheist 101]

I think if you are sincere in your quest for the truth you will take your queries to an Alim e Deen, instead of causing more confusion in the Islamic community.. I am not a scholar..but I find your position flawed on the matter.. I am also a believer in signs from Allah..he has given me mine, which are personal, Your position does not resonate with me. I am not out to convince other people or push my opinions on them, which you certainly are..

Astagfir'Allah!! Disgusting! Such filth!

Why let emotions cloud logic?

To accept one and reject the other source on the basis of reliability also defies reason, unless we received the Qur'an directly from Allah. But we have received both Qur'an and Hadith through the same channels. Same people transmitted this as the Word of Allah, that as the word of the Prophet, Salla-Allahu alayhi was sallam. Even the verse claiming that Qur'an will be protected came to us through the same people. Through what logic can anyone declare that the channels are reliable for Qur'an and unreliable for Hadith? On the contrary the Quranic promise of protection must apply to Hadith as well for there is no point in protecting the words but not the meanings of the Qur'an.

A Look at Hadith Rejecters' Claims

Youve copied and pasted off Quranist propaganda websites, do you mind having a look at the various refutations of the claims they make.. they are only a click away on google.

You still havent answered my question, Do you think the majority of muslims since the beginning of time(Islamic civilization) have been brainwashed or just too dumb to look at things from your point of view?..

I donot mean to give offense but this Quran only approach is not Quran alone if you still pray like a Sunni... Eitherway bro I wish the best for you and may Allah guide us all..I adopted your approach and even took part in slandering Bukhari and Abu Hurairra, I believe God didnt want me to take part in it..(Im not claiming to special but I feel that Allah has always shown me signs, that confirm when I am getting off track, I wont go deeper, its not something Saintly just dreams and small hints in everday life)

Peace and hope you are enjoying Ramadan

 

[Aamer]

I think if you are sincere in your quest for the truth you will take your queries to an Alim e Deen, instead of causing more confusion in the Islamic community.. I am not a scholar..but I find your position flawed on the matter.. I am also a believer in signs from Allah..he has given me mine, which are personal, Your position does not resonate with me. I am not out to convince other people or push my opinions on them, which you certainly are..


Why let emotions cloud logic?



A Look at Hadith Rejecters' Claims

Youve copied and pasted off Quranist propaganda websites, do you mind having a look at the various refutations of the claims they make.. they are only a click away on google.

You still havent answered my question, Do you think the majority of muslims since the beginning of time(Islamic civilization) have been brainwashed or just too dumb to look at things from your point of view?..

I donot mean to give offense but this Quran only approach is not Quran alone if you still pray like a Sunni... Eitherway bro I wish the best for you and may Allah guide us all..I adopted your approach and even took part in slandering Bukhari and Abu Hurairra, I believe God didnt want me to take part in it..(Im not claiming to special but I feel that Allah has always shown me signs, that confirm when I am getting off track, I wont go deeper, its not something Saintly just dreams and small hints in everday life)

Peace and hope you are enjoying Ramadan

Bro, I've seen and analyzed both sides of the argument. In the end, I trusted God and his book over all scholars. You can learn a lot by studying the history of the Jews and the Talmud. I'm not trying to sell anything, convert anyone or even have a debate. I've stated what I know. Now it's up to you and anyone else reading this post to make up their own minds. It's between you and your creator. Have a blessed Ramadan. Peace.

 

[Monotheist 101]

Bro, I've seen and analyzed both sides of the argument.

IMO if you truly had, like I have, there is no way that you can reach such an extreme conclusion..:yes:..unless your research was biased to begin with..on a side note How did you come across Quranist teachings? All by yourself or through one of the many Quranist advocates/scholars in Arizona?