Either Muhammad is a true or false prophet...no in between!

[Nietzsche]

No, not at all. I think there is a very high probability that he was an a historical figure. Getting to the "real goods" about that figure is near on impossible due to the mythology that grew around him.

Oh! In that case, ignore what I said. I thought you were saying he didn't/it wasn't likely he existed.

I don't doubt Mohammed did some questionable things, but I also don't think he was a sociopath/psychopath. I'm a borderline case(borderline anti-social personality disorder), and Mohammed just doesn't fit.

 

[YmirGF]

Oh! In that case, ignore what I said. I thought you were saying he didn't/it wasn't likely he existed.

I don't doubt Mohammed did some questionable things, but I also don't think he was a sociopath/psychopath. I'm a borderline case(borderline anti-social personality disorder), and Mohammed just doesn't fit.

We are both so wordy, LOL, it's not surprising that we would gleefully flit past each other, on occasion. I do agree, although it is very tempting, that no serious psychological profile can be made about the man. We simply do not know what information is accurate, which was window dressing or what was mythology.

 

[Cephus]

Extremist Muslims are no worse than Fundamentalist Christians. I would very much prefer we sealed both of them in an arena to fight for our amusement.

Well, they are worse, in that nobody is holding the leash on extremist Muslims, whereas secular society has effectively neutered fundamentalist Christians and has kept them from acting on their violent, hate-filled beliefs. Extremist Islam desperately needs a master that can keep them under control.

 

[Shad]

..sigh
Your ignorance of history is showing. The Crusades were a government-sponsored attempt to cleanse the Holy Land of Infidels. Or, in the North, of Pagans & Heathens. Do you know that the Jews in Iberia were pushed out not by the Caliphate, but by the Christian kingdoms enforced by the Franks?

A number were exiled before the Reconquest during Almohad dynasty. Read Mainondies biography.

 

[Ultimatum]

No one in this thread has proven Mohammed to be a true prophet of God. Therefore, one can assume that Moslems follow the Islamic ideology by blind faith -- a poor way to base any of your intelligence on.
Personally and logically, I do not believe in a deity as this deity has not shown himself and no one has any evidence for a deity.
So, to me, Mohammed was just another fanatical that gained traction and his baseless teachings blown up out of control.

 

[Nietzsche]

Well, they are worse, in that nobody is holding the leash on extremist Muslims, whereas secular society has effectively neutered fundamentalist Christians and has kept them from acting on their violent, hate-filled beliefs. Extremist Islam desperately needs a master that can keep them under control.

We had one, it was the called the Ottoman Empire. The French & British, in their infinite wisdom, decided to dismantle it after WW1 and make(then break) promises to Arab nationalists. 99% of the problems in the Middle East stem from that.

A number were exiled before the Reconquest during Almohad dynasty. Read Mainondies biography.

Yes, some were. But they did not see fit to expel each and every one of them and then start killing the ones who stayed.

 

[Cephus]

No one in this thread has proven Mohammed to be a true prophet of God. Therefore, one can assume that Moslems follow the Islamic ideology by blind faith -- a poor way to base any of your intelligence on.
Personally and logically, I do not believe in a deity as this deity has not shown himself and no one has any evidence for a deity.
So, to me, Mohammed was just another fanatical that gained traction and his baseless teachings blown up out of control.

No one in this thread or any other has proven that there's any God to begin with, hence any claim that anyone is a true prophet of God is ridiculous on it's face. Let's start at the beginning here, nobody ought to accept that anyone is a representative of any deity that hasn't been shown to actually be real.

 

[Ultimatum]

No one in this thread or any other has proven that there's any God to begin with, hence any claim that anyone is a true prophet of God is ridiculous on it's face. Let's start at the beginning here, nobody ought to accept that anyone is a representative of any deity that hasn't been shown to actually be real.

It's the same as reasoning that 8 + = 10, even though we do not and will never know what the additive is.
It is an illogical, baseless claim to be making.

 

[Cephus]

It's the same as reasoning that 8 + = 10, even though we do not and will never know what the additive is.
It is an illogical, baseless claim to be making.

Sure we do, there is only one possible single positive answer that it can be.

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

Simple answer:
For Disbelievers he is false prophet(pbuh)
For believers he is true prophet(Pbuh)


Case solved

 

[Ultimatum]

Sure we do, there is only one possible single positive answer that it can be.

Wow, you must have scored a high math grade at school(!)
or
You missed the point of the post completely.

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

Muslim tradition notwithstanding, nobody knows a thing about Muhammad that wasn't recorded by the people who were recording a legend.

Christians and Jews are in the same boat. It is the single biggest problem with "Scripture". It is all based on humans writing down something
someone told them that someone said that God said.

Tom

No!
This is not true
Christianssay-.
1. the students wrote the words and the words and deeds of Jesus
2. the Jews say the prophets wrote the biblical books
3. yes men wrote the Bible
4. who wrote the Bible written word of God
Whoknew him
5. Islam is different
El-Islamsay aboutQuranword of God
And reject what you say
O-Islamsaysthat the Qur'andescendeddirectly fromAllahto Muhammad
B-Islamrefusessayingthat humanswrote theQuran
6. therefore, I invite you to distinguish between Islam
And Christianity
7. Muhammad wrote the Quran but Muslims reject this talk
8. Mohammed moved from the Holy Bible
Information and written in the Qur'an
9. Mohamed worked on forgery and slander it books

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

I suppose, but the Arabian Peninsula was still a backwater part of the "civilized world" in that era. There was not a lot of interaction with the outside world. Likewise, all the children, grandchildren and envoys would have been somewhat fanatical followers painting a pristine image of the man they called their prophet. That is a huge problem when trying to resolve the image of the real Muhammad.

The Arabs wereinteractingwith the outside world-the.
Inthe time of Muhammad
And the Bible was in the hands of the Arabs in the Al Jazeera Arabic
And in the House of Muhammad
Tribe
But there was a band called alnsranet
These differ from Christians
The alnsranet based on one of the Gospels written in Hebrew
He was the son of Muhammad and called Pastor Ibn Nawfal translated this book from Hebrew into Arabic
Muhammad was known as the Nestorian monk bahira
Leave the island Arabic was interacting with its surroundings and not isolated and kindly

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

In fairness, I tend to give Mohammed a bit more credit. For one, we're 100% sure he lived. We've got third-party reports of a lot of what he did(the non-miracle stuff). I think it is fair that when viewing the Quran through a secular lens, that most of what was written down was indeed by those who witnessed Mohammed. Now, this does mean the accuracy is not perfect, but it's a better rendition of events than the Torah or Gospels.

The Qur'an iswritten byMuhammadwithhissonNaufalwithmonkbahira
The Koran is to mislead and deceive
And its teachings are different
And have no link with the Torah or Bible

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

Which is the most cogent argument as to whether or not Mohammad was a good guy and - whether or not Jesus was a good guy.
"A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit."
- Mathew 7:18

For all of you who want to argue the "badness" of Mohammad based on the "goodness" of Jesus - based on the above quotes from the gospels... Guess what?

Christianity persecuted and slaughtered millions upon millions of Jews for the last 2,000 years purely based on Christian scripture.
Ergo, based on the above quotations, Jesus was one hell of a false prophet - by the fruition of his life and teachings shall you know whether or not he was a good guy or a bad guy....

That seems to be the argument regarding Mohammad. So, please, explain why it should apply to him and not to Jesus.

1. I know that Christianity does not conflict with Judaism
2. what happened to the Jews is not a religion
3. what happened to the Jews is the owing interest
4. sometimes the Jews pay for their faith
5. Christ did not kill any Jew
6. Mohammed did it
7. Christ was a Jew
8. know the Christian recognizes Jews
And supporters will also
Because the brothers of the Christian faith
9. who ordered the murder of Jews and Christians Muhammad

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

Peace be on all.

Holy Quran

[33:71] O ye who believe! fear Allah, and say the right word.

[4:172] O People of the Book, exceed not the limits in your religion, and say not of Allah anything but the truth. Verily, the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was only a Messenger of Allah and a fulfilment of His word which He sent down to Mary, and a mercy from Him. So believe in Allah and His Messengers, and say not ‘They are three.’ Desist, it will be better for you. Verily, Allah is the only One God. Far is it from His Holiness that He should have a son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth. And sufficient is Allah as a Guardian.

Refutation of Taqqia @ # 5 @ Replies to Allegations on Islam Ahmadiyya

Thisaccusationis null
1. the Christians--they say God is one
-2-Christians do not believe in three God
3. Quran lying
4. this accusation wrong is because millions of Christians killed
5. trial of the Qur'an on this calumny

 

[Nietzsche]

The Qur'an iswritten byMuhammadwithhissonNaufalwithmonkbahira
The Koran is to mislead and deceive
And its teachings are different
And have no link with the Torah or Bible

....

Mohammed was illiterate.

 

[Shad]

Yes, some were. But they did not see fit to expel each and every one of them and then start killing the ones who stayed.

It was state policy. Convert, exile or death. Even some that converted were killed or exiled due to paranoia from fanatical fundamentalist. They forced converts to wear cloth badges as identification due to paranoia and forced conversions like some goose-step moron did a few decades ago. This does not excuse Christian Spain from it's role but lets not pretend this didn't happen when fundamentalists were in charge in Muslim states. Such acts are part of the MO of fanatics be they Christian or Muslim.

We had one, it was the called the Ottoman Empire. The French & British, in their infinite wisdom, decided to dismantle it after WW1 and make(then break) promises to Arab nationalists. 99% of the problems in the Middle East stem from that.

The Ottomans lost the leash of fundamentalist in their own Empire a century before WW1. Every time there was a major attempt at reform fundamentals came out of the woodworks. There were a number of revolts started by the entrenched religious elite and complete coups when a Sultan was too secular. The Old Man of Europe made a series of mistakes on it's own and picked the wrong side in a war. They shoot themselves in the foot not the British or French. The Saudi fanatics tried to form a state 2 times before WW1, all were put down by the Ottomans. The fanatics were already present within the Empire as the Empire only had nominal control over must of it's territory. The issues you speak of were already present for over a century in Arabia.

 

[Nietzsche]

It was state policy. Convert, exile or death. Even some that converted were killed or exiled due to paranoia from fanatical fundamentalist. They forced converts to wear cloth badges as identification due to paranoia and forced conversions like some goose-step moron did a few decades ago. This does not excuse Christian Spain from it's role but lets not pretend this didn't happen when fundamentalists were in charge in Muslim states. Such acts are part of the MO of fanatics be they Christian or Muslim.

I am not excusing Muslim atrocities. I am saying that life for Jews under Muslim rule tended to be better than Jews under Christian rule. They didn't have to worry about the 'Christ Killer' nonsense for one.

 

[Shad]

I am not excusing Muslim atrocities. I am saying that life for Jews under Muslim rule tended to be better than Jews under Christian rule. They didn't have to worry about the 'Christ Killer' nonsense for one.

I agree hence why I never mentioned the previous two dynasties which were much more tolerant and not fanatics.