Elon Musk personally thwarted a Ukrainian attack and saved the Russian Navy

[Subduction Zone]

I started a thread about the Ukrainian war.
Would you care to answer?

What does that have to do with your errors?

 

[YmirGF]

The US is not attacking anyone. Providing aid in self defense is not an attack.

That argument is pretty thin. The USA is literally in a proxy war with Russian. A very dangerous undertaking.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

That argument is pretty thin. The USA is literally in a proxy war with Russian. A very dangerous undertaking.

No, it is LITERALLY not. The war was instigated by Russia. They are the belligerent party and they initiated the conflict.

 

[Subduction Zone]

That argument is pretty thin. The USA is literally in a proxy war with Russian. A very dangerous undertaking.

Perhaps. Some may see it that way. And it might be one for all practical purposes. But what are other countries supposed to do? When another country makes a power grab it is up to the rest of the world as a whole to oppose it. The US is not going this alone. Nor are we supplying troops. We are supplying arms for self defense and that should be acceptable.

 

[lukethethird]

The US invades weak countries and overthrows governments on a routine basis. Russia can defend itself so what does the US do, it gets Ukrainians to fight for them in a proxy war by baiting Putin. The fool that Putin is took the bait, fell into a trap, and now he is mired deep in a proxy war with the US and its little nato lackys with no immediate way out. The cheerleading warmongers love it because they hate Russians so much, and the money is more than good. Meanwhile, Ukraine suffers by being caught in the middle and by being used as cannon fodder, and the rest of the world sees the dangerous escalation leading possibly to a nuclear war.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

The US invades weak countries and overthrows governments on a routine basis.

Irrelevant. You wouldn't use this logic to ignore Nazis invading their neighbours. Pointing to hypocrisy is fine, but it doesn't actually present a solution to the current issue. It's just a pointless distraction. If you want America to answer for its crimes, cool. But that can wait another day. Right now, the issue is UKRAINE AND RUSSIA.

Russia can defend itself so what does the US do, it gets Ukrainians to fight for them in a proxy war by baiting Putin.

Complete lie. The US had no involvement in Russia's decision to invade Ukraine, and Russia was not - by any reasonable metric - provoked.

The fool that Putin is took the bait, fell into a trap, and now he is mired deep in a proxy war with the US and its little nato lackys with no immediate way out.

It wasn't a trap. He decided to invade. If it WAS a "trap" then it would only BE a trap for someone who is a war mongering imperialist, in which case he's getting his comeuppance. But it was not a trap. At no point was Putin forced to invade Ukraine. He did it because he wanted to strike and conquer Ukraine before they had the ability to officially join NATO and, thus, defend themselves from invasion, as is their right as a free and sovereign state.

The cheerleading warmongers love it because they hate Russians so much, and the money is more than good.

Nobody here loves this war. We all want it to end. We're just doing so whilst dispelling constant lies from Putin apologists.

Meanwhile, Ukraine suffers by being caught in the middle and by being used as cannon fodder, and the rest of the world sees the dangerous escalation leading possibly to a nuclear war.

Which is entirely Russia's fault.

Solutions to this situation which don't involve simply allowing Russia to annex or completely control Ukraine seem suspiciously absent from this post. It's almost as if you're more interested in contrarian moralising and getting on your high-horse than actually demonstrating a factual engagement with the subject at hand.

I've exposed you lying about this war and Ukraine's history multiple times now. Your credibility on this subject is zero, and yet you continue to repeat Putin apologia about him being "tricked" into the war, and constantly trying to paint the US as the antagonists of a war Russia started simply because they are honoring their agreements with an ally by supplying them with arms to defend themselves against a belligerent, imperialist state.

Because you're an imperialist.

 

[lukethethird]

Irrelevant. You wouldn't use this logic to ignore Nazis invading their neighbours. Pointing to hypocrisy is fine, but it doesn't actually present a solution to the current issue. It's just a pointless distraction. If you want America to answer for its crimes, cool. But that can wait another day. Right now, the issue is UKRAINE AND RUSSIA.


Complete lie. The US had no involvement in Russia's decision to invade Ukraine, and Russia was not - by any reasonable metric - provoked.


It wasn't a trap. He decided to invade. If it WAS a "trap" then it would only BE a trap for someone who is a war mongering imperialist, in which case he's getting his comeuppance. But it was not a trap. At no point was Putin forced to invade Ukraine. He did it because he wanted to strike and conquer Ukraine before they had the ability to officially join NATO and, thus, defend themselves from invasion, as is their right as a free and sovereign state.


Nobody here loves this war. We all want it to end. We're just doing so whilst dispelling constant lies from Putin apologists.


Which is entirely Russia's fault.

Solutions to this situation which don't involve simply allowing Russia to annex or completely control Ukraine seem suspiciously absent from this post. It's almost as if you're more interested in contrarian moralising and getting on your high-horse than actually demonstrating a factual engagement with the subject at hand.

I've exposed you lying about this war and Ukraine's history multiple times now. Your credibility on this subject is zero, and yet you continue to repeat Putin apologia about him being "tricked" into the war, and constantly trying to paint the US as the antagonists of a war Russia started simply because they are honoring their agreements with an ally by supplying them with arms to defend themselves against a belligerent, imperialist state.

Because you're an imperialist.

The sources that I provided in this thread have zero failed fact checks so you can claim to expose me as a liar all day long, whatever makes you feel better.

 

[danieldemol]

The US invades weak countries and overthrows governments on a routine basis.

Ok

Russia can defend itself so what does the US do, it gets Ukrainians to fight for them in a proxy war by baiting Putin.

So you think the US instigated this war?

The fool that Putin is took the bait, fell into a trap, and now he is mired deep in a proxy war with the US and its little nato lackys with no immediate way out. The cheerleading warmongers love it because they hate Russians so much, and the money is more than good.

I don't hate Russians and im not getting any money out of this war, but I'm cheering on Ukrainian defence forces because contrary to your assertion there is an immediate way out of this war for Putin, he simply has to give the order for his troops to retreat back to Russia. I would support a ceasefire *if* he gave the order to pull out so as to allow his troops to return safely.

Meanwhile, Ukraine suffers by being caught in the middle and by being used as cannon fodder, and the rest of the world sees the dangerous escalation leading possibly to a nuclear war.

There has been no "escalation" by anyone other than Putin that I'm aware of unless you mean that defending their homes is an "escalation" by Ukrainians, but I would see that as heavy spin personally.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

The sources that I provided in this thread have zero failed fact checks so you can claim to expose me as a liar all day long, whatever makes you feel better.

That's your argument? Seriously?

You're not even trying. How can anyone think you're anything other than a propagandist with no actual arguments?

I've explicitly, with direct sources, proven that you have used sources that lie. What more can I actually do?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

That was the creed of this nation. Helping those who needed aid and reached out to the world for help in protecting them from very bad people.

Since when? This nation was not founded to be world savior.

 

[Rival]

Since when? This nation was not founded to be world savior.

When did we decide that war is somehow abnormal and must be stopped? Wars are happening on almost every continent all the time. We pick one we have a stake in and go for it. Prior to the 21st c. what Putin did is just considered either imperialism or a civil war or 'hey some land'. What would the US do if Hawaii decided it wants out? Many seem to. The US, unlike the EU, has laws against leaving the union. I mean to most people that's like wtf? As well as engaging in imperialism on a huge scale. When did war become a major anathema, considering it seems to be the main human activity after breathing. Imperialism and Empire was the norm before the 21st century. As far back as you go there are empires, not nation states. The nation state is a 16th or largely 17th c. invention. One Russia doesn't recognise, for good or ill.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

When did we decide that war is somehow abnormal and must be stopped? Wars are happening on almost every continent all the time. We pick one we have a stake in and go for it. Prior to the 21st c. what Putin did is just considered either imperialism or a civil war or 'hey some land'. What would the US do if Hawaii decided it wants out? Many seem to. The US, unlike the EU, has laws against leaving the union. I mean to most people that's like wtf? As well as engaging in imperialism on a huge scale. When did war become a major anathema, considering it seems to be the main human activity after breathing. Imperialism and Empire was the norm before the 21st century. As far back as you go there are empires, not nation states. The nation state is a 16th or largely 17th c. invention. One Russia doesn't recognise, for good or ill.

Oh, we don't want to stop war. Americans love war, and are easily whipped into an irrational frenzy. We're a very militaristic people, especially from our armchairs, where we're safe and cozy. There hasn't been a real anti-war movement since the 2000s here. It died after Obama managed to put a "humanitarian" face on slaughter and plunder to fool the liberals.

If we want to be warlike, fine, but we could at least be honest about it.

 

[lukethethird]

Oh, we don't want to stop war. Americans love war, and are easily whipped into an irrational frenzy. We're a very militaristic people, especially from our armchairs, where we're safe and cozy. There hasn't been a real anti-war movement since the 2000s here. It died after Obama managed to put a "humanitarian" face on slaughter and plunder to fool the liberals.

If we want to be warlike, fine, but we could at least be honest about it.

I don't know what americans are complaining about, big oil and big food markets raised the price of gas and groceries when Putin invaded knowing that americans would obediently blame the war, billionaires are getting richer by the minute, americans can cringe in fear at the thought of Putin's army marching across Europe, looks like business as usual.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Oh, we don't want to stop war. Americans love war, and are easily whipped into an irrational frenzy. We're a very militaristic people, especially from our armchairs, where we're safe and cozy. There hasn't been a real anti-war movement since the 2000s here. It died after Obama managed to put a "humanitarian" face on slaughter and plunder to fool the liberals.

If we want to be warlike, fine, but we could at least be honest about it.

I don't know what americans are complaining about, big oil and big food markets raised the price of gas and groceries when Putin invaded knowing that americans would obediently blame the war, billionaires are getting richer by the minute, americans can cringe in fear at the thought of Putin's army marching across Europe, looks like business as usual.

When you can't engage with facts, engage only in cloying, mutual, smug, self gratification.

I mean, who cares about Ukraine, right? The important thing is that you two feel smug and superior on an internet forum. That's what matters, after-all.