RestlessSoul
Well-Known Member
It's only self-defence when you're the one being attacked. Is the USA under attack?
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Elon Musk personally thwarted a Ukrainian attack and saved the Russian Navy
- Thread starter anna.
- Start date
It's only self-defence when you're the one being attacked. Is the USA under attack?
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
The US is not attacking anyone. Providing aid in self defense is not an attack.
RestlessSoul
Well-Known Member
Well which ever way you look at it, arming protagonists in a war constitutes active involvement in that war.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
That was the creed of this nation. Helping those who needed aid and reached out to the world for help in protecting them from very bad people.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Huh? Wrre talking about Ukraine being invaded by Russia, not some Tom Clancy novel where theres American secret military agents fighting to defend and protect America.
Friend of Mara
Active Member
Yeah. Because Russia is objectively in the wrong in the war. At least from all known perspectives from the American side.
In the news...
www.cnbc.com
Russia's Putin praises Elon Musk as an 'outstanding person' and 'talented businessman'
Putin's comments come after Musk said last week that he refused an emergency request by Ukraine to extend coverage of Starlink satellites to Crimea.
Let's say that you observe a thug brutally assaulting
someone...perhaps your spouse. Would you argue
that to help defend the victim is just part of the
assault, & therefore wrong?
That's not really so. It's subjective becuase
"wrong" depends upon one's values.
People who support invasion, rape, murder,
& theft as tools to advance Putin's agenda
of thwarting western decadence, & reinforcing
Christian values would say that he's doing
God's work. This explains why so many
actually support violent conquest of Ukraine.
There's also the Russian self defense perspective.
What if France & Poland decided to invade Russia?
Considering what was done during the Obama administration, Putin is a saint, in comparison.
We are speaking of a very small geographical area where the Don river flows.
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Exactly!
We just have different values.
Your values comport with Saint Putin's.
Mine don't.
Friend of Mara
Active Member
Actually objectively? No. I was being hyperbolic with the usage of that word. But I don't see many history books writing Russia as the protagonist of the war.
The only part that actually made sense to me (because obviously I'm an expert in international diplomacy and trans European/Asian policy) was that Putin wanted to avoid Ukraine joining NATO. Which ironically his actions were the only thing he could have done to get NATO to actually accept Ukraine into their ranks.
If your values include the destruction of Europe as civilization...surely.
I said "if", I underline.
But it would confirm the reason why Nuland said that very refined expression about the EU.
Friend of Mara
Active Member
Listen Russia comes in second place to the US quite a lot now. Its no surprise being a global terroristic threat that flexes its military superiority over smaller nations in order to advance their own domestic political agenda is just done better in the good old US of A. Not to get too American exceptionalist as I am sure Russia is doing their very best but they are working in one theater that is close to home with direct lines of engagement. The US juggles at least a few at any given moment around the globe. Each with different complex lines of engagement and most not against collective military operations. Not to mention we still allow fact checkers in our media so we have to be even sneaker about our justifications for actions. lol.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Wait, you are the one advocating for the invasion of Europe by other countries. Or doesn't it count because Russia is part "European"?If your values include the destruction of Europe as civilization...surely.
I said "if", I underline.
But it would confirm the reason why Nuland said that very refined expression about the EU.
Russia is European.
Because her two most important cities are European: Moscow and Saint Petersburg.
And the third is Sevastopol.
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Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
But at least 2/3 of it is Asian.
RestlessSoul
Well-Known Member
Is that what America is doing, protecting my spouse from assault? Or is Ukraine America’s spouse? These simple analogies can be quite confusing.
Notwithstanding, let’s try another; you observe two tough looking individuals shouting in a language you don’t understand. The larger of the two assaults the smaller, the smaller retaliates, and the two of them continue to exchange blows. Do you;
a) walk by looking the other way,
b) intervene in the hope of defusing the situation, or
c) take sides and escalate the conflict until either it ends in the destruction - to your benefit - of one of the protagonists, or you become distracted by something else?
And why, incidentally, does the prospect of the world being policed by a country that doesn’t exactly shine at policing it’s own citizens, make me feel so uncomfortable?
We disagree about Putin saving Europe.If your values include the destruction of Europe as civilization...surely.
I said "if", I underline.
But it would confirm the reason why Nuland said that very refined expression about the EU.