Elon Musk personally thwarted a Ukrainian attack and saved the Russian Navy

[Secret Chief]

"Musk has in the past echoed Russian talking points on Twitter, suggesting that some parts of eastern Ukraine be handed to Russia to reflect “the will of the people”.

A study by the European Commission published last week found that Twitter under Musk’s ownership had played a significant role in disseminating Russian propaganda about the Ukraine war."

- Elon Musk ordered Starlink to be turned off during Ukraine offensive, book says

 

[lukethethird]

When you can't stick to facts, you move to abstraction.

Right now, Russia is the one threatening to use nukes. Not America. Stop with your childish histrionics and narrativizing.

Incidentally, I notice you have yet to express a specific opinion about the OP. As an opposer of interventionism, I assume you don't condone Musk's alleged actions?

So far it's he said she said but no doubt you have already made your assumptions. Surprise, surprise.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

How about confining the steam rolling to the Vatican?

Way to miss the point.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Oh, I see, 'you're with us or you are against us mentality,' how biblical of you. The only difference between you and me is that I can think for myself, I can criticise all sides of this bloodbath that barbarians and savages are engaged in, the civilized people that were able to have fled Ukraine while the all so righteous believing people like yourself live out the fantasy of good vs evil in their minds.

While you are busy "thinking for yourself," could you help the rest of us understand just what Ukraine was doing that Russia felt the need to begin bombing it to smithereens?

I understand, by the way, that Donetsk and Luhansk are experience break-away uprising, but how would you feel if large numbers in Washington State or Vermont decided they wanted to join Canada, and raised paramilitary groups to fight for that? Do you believe that Canada would be considered "right" to start bombing the U.S. capital in support? Or would you at least prefer to postpone that until plebiscites could determine what the majorities in those states really wanted?

 

[lukethethird]

While you are busy "thinking for yourself," could you help the rest of us understand just what Ukraine was doing that Russia felt the need to begin bombing it to smithereens?

Has Ukraine been bombed to smithereens? Was there a Shock and Awe bombing campaign as we saw when the US bombed Baghdad for six weeks before sending the troops in?

Putin's Bombers Could Devastate Ukraine But He's Holding Back. Here's Why

I understand, by the way, that Donetsk and Luhansk are experience break-away uprising, but how would you feel if large numbers in Washington State or Vermont decided they wanted to join Canada, and raised paramilitary groups to fight for that? Do you believe that Canada would be considered "right" to start bombing the U.S. capital in support? Or would you at least prefer to postpone that until plebiscites could determine what the majorities in those states really wanted?

Poor analogy. While Yanukovych was still president of Ukraine, US heads of state were in Maidan encouraging the crowds that wanted to oust the president. I would like to know what your reaction would have been had Russian heads of state were in Washington encouraging the crowds to storm the capital on Jan. 6. because that in essence is what McCain and Nuland were doing in Ukraine.

 

[anna.]

Wow. I have Estro on ignore, so I miss all their posts, but had to have a look at this one myself.

They're sometimes not particularly good at keeping up the non-fascist facade.

I'm almost to that point. Despite the winks and smiles, the posts come across as trolling for entertainment.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Has Ukraine been bombed to smithereens? Was there a Shock and Awe bombing campaign as we saw when the US bombed Baghdad for six weeks before sending the troops in?

There has been an immense amount of damage from Russian bombs. I wonder if you remember how much of Mariupol was destroyed, including the opera house but more importantly the maternity hospital in which mothers and children died. 90% of Mariupol has been destroyed. What is the point of that? What is the value? What does anybody gain? Or is it all just loss, loss and loss?

Your second question, about whether we can compare that to any other campaign, is just "what-aboutism," and I don't go there. You know, kind of "Joe did a bad thing," answered by, "well, what about Bob's bad thing?" I don't connect them. They both have to answer for themselves.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

You don't think that binary thinking oversimplifies things? Either one is a Putin apologist, or an advocate for another NATO military adventure, on a continent far from the USA?

Self defense is NOT a military adventure.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I'm almost to that point. Despite the winks and smiles, the posts come across as trolling for entertainment.

I'm pretty sure Estro is serious.

 

[Arthur Brain]

I know what Daily Kos is, and it doesn't fail if the info is correct and backed up by credible sources.

In the Daily Kos link, the info comes from CNN (link in the first line) and Musk's biographer.

But you can read his own words at the NYT or WaPo or CBS, in this case:

Elon Musk says he denied Ukraine satellite request to avoid complicity in "major act of war" vs. Russia

The tech billionaire says he denied an "urgent" request from Ukraine to extend Starlink satellite coverage, to avoid complicity in a "major act of war."

www.cbsnews.com

This was also covered on the BBC earlier.

 

[Arthur Brain]

Practically everyone but you acknowledges the fact that the US is the single greatest threat to world peace and according to you I'm a Putin shill and an imperialist for pointing out the obvious.

"Practically everyone"? What world are you living in cos it sure ain't the real one. America is a bigger threat to world peace than totalitarian regimes?!

 

[Arthur Brain]

Has Ukraine been bombed to smithereens? Was there a Shock and Awe bombing campaign as we saw when the US bombed Baghdad for six weeks before sending the troops in?

Putin's Bombers Could Devastate Ukraine But He's Holding Back. Here's Why


Poor analogy. While Yanukovych was still president of Ukraine, US heads of state were in Maidan encouraging the crowds that wanted to oust the president. I would like to know what your reaction would have been had Russian heads of state were in Washington encouraging the crowds to storm the capital on Jan. 6. because that in essence is what McCain and Nuland were doing in Ukraine.

Sure, there's no widespread devastation at all in Ukraine after Putin's invasion, heck, Mariupol is a tourist attraction.

Oh, ftr, I don't agree with the invasion of Iraq either lest you accuse me of a double standard, not that I'd really care if you did anyway...

 

[lukethethird]

There has been an immense amount of damage from Russian bombs. I wonder if you remember how much of Mariupol was destroyed, including the opera house but more importantly the maternity hospital in which mothers and children died. 90% of Mariupol has been destroyed. What is the point of that? What is the value? What does anybody gain? Or is it all just loss, loss and loss?

Your second question, about whether we can compare that to any other campaign, is just "what-aboutism," and I don't go there. You know, kind of "Joe did a bad thing," answered by, "well, what about Bob's bad thing?" I don't connect them. They both have to answer for themselves.

Yes, there has been an immense amount of damage done, however in the article western military analysts were putting the invasion into perspective. Bombed to smithereens was what I was commenting on. I'm not saying whataboutism, I was asking if smithereens is really the case. Russia was holding back according to these analysts and no one wants to hear that because it doesn't fit the narrative I suppose. I'm antiwar and there is plenty of criticism to go around, none of the parties involved are innocent from what I have noticed, and I don't toe the party line nor follow the narrative that the US imperialists and its western lackys are a bastion of freedom and democracy, and obviously neither is Russia.

 

[lukethethird]

Sure, there's no widespread devastation at all in Ukraine after Putin's invasion, heck, Mariupol is a tourist attraction.

Oh, ftr, I don't agree with the invasion of Iraq either lest you accuse me of a double standard, not that I'd really care if you did anyway...

Oh, I know those other wars were unjustified, that's always the case when another war comes along, this time this war really is justified, yeah, that's it.

 

[Arthur Brain]

Oh, I know those other wars were unjustified, that's always the case when another war comes along, this time this war really is justified, yeah, that's it.

Or, you could just condemn Putin's completely unjustified invasion of Ukraine where any sort of war wouldn't be happening right now?

Or just keep warbling on if ya like, your choice.

 

[lukethethird]

Or, you could just condemn Putin's completely unjustified invasion of Ukraine?

Or just keep warbling on if ya like, your choice.

I condemn all parties involved, especially Putin because being provoked by Nato is no excuse, nor is it any justification to invade Ukraine.

 

[Arthur Brain]

I condemn all parties involved, especially Putin because being provoked by Nato is no excuse, nor is it any justification to invade.

So, Putin had no justification to invade Ukraine then? That's something at least. How about you drop any sort of excuse for the despot whatsoever and go that one step further?

 

[anna.]

This was also covered on the BBC earlier.

Good, I hope it gets more attention everywhere. Musk was on the phone to Putin during this time period as well.

 

[Arthur Brain]

Good, I hope it gets more attention everywhere. Musk was on the phone to Putin during this time period as well.

Oh, it's been getting plenty of attention here...

 

[lukethethird]

So, Putin had no justification to invade Ukraine then? That's something at least. How about you drop any sort of excuse for the despot whatsoever and go that one step further?

There has never been any sort of excuse for the despot to drop whatsoever, Putin is a thug and a tyrant, and has been for a long time. What is really unfortunate is that so are the neocons in Washington. That leaves us with a proxy war wherein the eastern imperialist is fighting western imperialists at the expense of Ukraine, the pawn in all of this, it's their blood being shed. Sorry but I'm not a cheerleader for the side that wears the white hats vs the side that wears the black hats because that is not the way it is.