RestlessSoul
Well-Known Member
But how does your country decide which belligerent foreign powers are your enemy, and which are your friends and allies?
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Elon Musk personally thwarted a Ukrainian attack and saved the Russian Navy
- Thread starter anna.
- Start date
But how does your country decide which belligerent foreign powers are your enemy, and which are your friends and allies?
anna.
colors your eyes with what's not there
Another Putin apologist....
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
In general if a much more powerful country invades a neighbor because they do not like their policies, then that country is in the wrong. Self defense is reasonable, but in no way at all was Russia threatened.
RestlessSoul
Well-Known Member
You don't think that binary thinking oversimplifies things? Either one is a Putin apologist, or an advocate for another NATO military adventure, on a continent far from the USA?
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
To date NATO has been a defensive force. You are using a false equivalence.
RestlessSoul
Well-Known Member
I'm not asking about the rights and wrongs of the Ukraine/Russia conflict. I'm asking how your country - whose track record in foreign wars over the last 70 years is controversial to say the least - decides which foreign wars to get involved in?
You consider it mere stubborness to wish to remain as your own country?Considering how stubborn Ukraine is...
helping Russia is an act of heroism. I guess.
lukethethird
unknown member
Oh, I see, 'you're with us or you are against us mentality,' how biblical of you. The only difference between you and me is that I can think for myself, I can criticise all sides of this bloodbath that barbarians and savages are engaged in, the civilized people that were able to have fled Ukraine while the all so righteous believing people like yourself live out the fantasy of good vs evil in their minds.
anna.
colors your eyes with what's not there
To be fair I need to point out that the Daily Kos fails as a source the same reasons that too many right wing sources have. It is highly biased and has a "Mixed" rating when it comes to reliability. In other words any of their claims should be taken with a huge grain of salt:
Daily Kos - Bias and Credibility
LEFT BIAS These media sources are moderately to strongly biased toward liberal causes through story selection and/or political affiliation. They maymediabiasfactcheck.com
But if true, he may have opened himself up to endless lawsuits that could possibly bankrupt even him. Not to mention possible criminal sanctions.
I know what Daily Kos is, and it doesn't fail if the info is correct and backed up by credible sources.
In the Daily Kos link, the info comes from CNN (link in the first line) and Musk's biographer.
But you can read his own words at the NYT or WaPo or CBS, in this case:
Elon Musk says he denied Ukraine satellite request to avoid complicity in "major act of war" vs. Russia
The tech billionaire says he denied an "urgent" request from Ukraine to extend Starlink satellite coverage, to avoid complicity in a "major act of war."
www.cbsnews.com
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Oh my, well there is a logical fallacy. Think about it.
anna.
colors your eyes with what's not there
There you go again, speaking for us.
RestlessSoul
Well-Known Member
I'm not using any equivalence. But when the history of this conflict comes to be written, if there's anyone around to write it, there can be no doubt that NATO's eastward expansion will be a factor which requires assessment. This does not justify Putin in any way. I consider him a thug and a tyrant, who has turned Russia into a kleptocracy. However, the complete ignorance of the history of the region among US foreign policy makers does not fill me with hope that your country has much to contribute to the resolution of this conflict.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
That is nice. We have heard another side now. It should be rather easy to show that it had been working and then the service was cut, as one side says. Or that it was not yet working and Musk denied that request. Frankly, I do not find Musk to be too credible lately. He should realize that if he is not being honest that there are almost certainly ways of verifying if the system was running and then abruptly ended or if it was not running and never started.I know what Daily Kos is, and it doesn't fail if the info is correct and backed up by credible sources.
In this link, the info comes from CNN (link in the first line) and Musk's biographer.
But you can read his own words at the NYT or WaPo or CBS, in this case:
Elon Musk says he denied Ukraine satellite request to avoid complicity in "major act of war" vs. Russia
The tech billionaire says he denied an "urgent" request from Ukraine to extend Starlink satellite coverage, to avoid complicity in a "major act of war."
I can't see someone starting an attack based upon a system that was not yet running, so I am right now finding Musk's claims to be the less believable of the two.
Ukraine is enormous...
those regions were Russian-speaking regions. They should renounce them. They'll survive.
RestlessSoul
Well-Known Member
It wasn't a fallacy, it was a simple question. Let me ask it again, and make it even simpler for you; What do you think is the USA's primary motivation for supplying weapons to a protagonist in a war zone? Maybe you genuinely believe it's to make the world safe for democracy, but excuse me if I'm a little sceptical about that.
lukethethird
unknown member
Well, it does appear that Americans are always in a need to be protected from the big bad bogey man and his evil forces, real or imagined, and their military is constantly on the prowl, offering protection for the fearful.
ImmortalFlame
Woke gremlin
Geopolitics. If it is in the USA's geopolitical interest to intervene, it generally does. In the case of Ukraine, Ukraine has a bilateral trade deal with the USA and is seeking closer trade relations with the west rather than joining the eastern trade bloc. Also, Ukraine is a potential NATO ally, as it has been seeking to join NATO (mostly unsuccessfully) for years. It is also beneficial to prevent Russian expansionism, as that both reduces the number of potential trading allies favourable to America and also puts other US allies in Europe at a direct threat of invasion themselves.
It also happens to be the right thing to do, in this case, as keeping Ukraine free of Russian control is also overwhelmingly what is supported by the people of Ukraine, and Russia is a neo-fascist regime run by a warmongering totalitarian dictator, and allowing warmongering totalitarian dictators to invade their neighbours unhindered generally has pretty bad consequences. So, there's that.
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For example...the EU borders with Russia.
Just think how close Berlin and Moscow are.
But Europeans couldn't care less about this war. In Brussels they discuss immigration, budget packages, infrastructures, healthcare...etc....
They have no time to waste on a war fought by two Slavic nations who won't find a compromise.
In the US: Russia is evil, Putin must be overthrown...24/7.
ImmortalFlame
Woke gremlin
Gee, if only there weren't all these countries that seem to be really fearful of invasion for some reason.
Wonder why that is...