Enemy's enemies are your friends - jews and Christians, unlikely friendship

[sooda]

They extended protection of Turkish citizenship and evacuated some Jews from France during the WW2. Even the Jews other than Turkish citizens.

Zionists NEVER remember that.

 

[rosends]

There were Jewish communities all over the Arab world and around the Med Sea long before the birth of Christ. Rome had a Jewish community. There were Jews in Yemen and Afghanistan, Egypt and Libya. All that changed after European refugees migrated to Palestine. Who are you blaming?

I'm pointing out that things in the mid-east region were not so calm and lovely for Jews when Arabs controlled the area for a long time. Blaming this on "European immigration" in ingenuous to say the least. The "change" you posit does not exist. There was violence all along.

 

[leov]

Zionists NEVER remember that.

Zionists are politicians first...

 

[lewisnotmiller]

It's a stretch to treat religions like some sort of homogeneous groups.

Are Muslims and Muslims friends? Christians and Christians?

 

[sooda]

Zionists are politicians first...

I know.. I can't help comparing the results of massive refugee movements. We have 6 million Syrian refugees in Europe and the Gulf States. We had massive refugee movements into Palestine from Europe and Russia. Americans in general support that history, but they'll fight you over Hispanic refugees.

 

[leov]

I know.. I can't help comparing the results of massive refugee movements. We have 6 million Syrian refugees in Europe and the Gulf States. We had massive refugee movements into Palestine from Europe and Russia. Americans in general support that history, but they'll fight you over Hispanic refugees.

Zionism is only partially responsible for late refugee wave.

 

[Shad]

I spent a lot of time in Jerusalem before the 1967 war. They got along quite well.

Al Mashriq - Bonfils Photographs

almashriq.hiof.no/general/700/770/779/historical/pcd0109/pcd0109.html
BONFILS PHOTOGRAPHS FROM THE LATE 1800's - 1. These 57 pictures are from Lebanon, Syria, Palestine and Egypt. Collections of Bonfils pictures are available at several museums around the world.

Jordan banned Jews visiting the West Wall.

 

[sooda]

They extended protection of Turkish citizenship and evacuated some Jews from France during the WW2. Even the Jews other than Turkish citizens.

Christian Zionists and Evangelicals ignore that history.

 

[sooda]

Jordan banned Jews visiting the West Wall.

Yes. Do you know why? Are you keen to have 50 million Hispanic or African refugees in the US?

Zionist Aspirations in Palestine - 20.07 - theatlantic.com
https://www.theatlantic.com/past/docs/unbound/bookauth/zionism/mackay.htm
Zionist Aspirations in Palestine. To-day it is the Zionist portion of this remnant of Judah, which, on the statement that for three or four centuries its ancestors owned the land from which nearly two thousand years ago they were driven, claims the whole of Southern Syria, the province of Palestine.

 

[Shad]

Yes. Do you know why?

They are antisemitic and hold a grudge over losing multiple wars.

Are you keen to have 50 million Hispanic or African refugees in the US?

If they are actually refugees not economic migrants, as most are now, abusing the system I have little issues.

Zionist Aspirations in Palestine - 20.07 - theatlantic.com

https://www.theatlantic.com/past/docs/unbound/bookauth/zionism/mackay.htm
Zionist Aspirations in Palestine. To-day it is the Zionist portion of this remnant of Judah, which, on the statement that for three or four centuries its ancestors owned the land from which nearly two thousand years ago they were driven, claims the whole of Southern Syria, the province of Palestine.

Ergo ban Zionists not Jews. See the difference? Do note your source is pre-67 war and Jordan annexation. Also there is this gem

"The question of Bolshevism is outside the scope of this article, but it remains to be said that the European Jewish population of Palestine is already tainted with the tenets of that faith. The Jews of Southeastern Europe are, almost to a man, Bolsheviki. Europe and America cannot allow the possibility of a homogeneous Bolshevist state in Palestine, whence the propagandists would be in an excellent position to preach their doctrines throughout Asia, Africa, and the Mediterranean coasts."


Who ranted about Commie Jews? Had a mustache, pointed a lot, talked like a creep.... Vincent Price! No that's not right.

So what does that have to do with Jordan? Nothing... You bluffed, nothing more.

Books & Authors - 96.11

"You say that "Jewry as a whole was converted to Zionism not by arguments but by events." Is there any way that the state of Israel could have been created, perhaps years later, without the events of the Second World War?" (WTF)

A" More to the point, Israel would have been different if it had been created many years before. It would have been established like New Zealand, or the United States, or Australia. At the time these countries were created, nobody really gave any thought to the rights of the indigenous peoples. The misfortune of Zionism was precisely that it belonged to the twentieth century. When I say that Jewry was converted to Zionism by events, I don't mean that Hitler created Israel, but what Hitler and the Final Solution unquestionably did was to create this identification between western Jewry and the new Jewish State, with the result that Jewish anti-Zionism, which had had a very strong tradition before then, really became morally impossible.

What..... I guess this fool never met a Jew that was against Zionism

 

[Faithofchristian]

(By "friends" I here mean any kind of ally in religious terms.)

Taking into account history, should Jews and Christians be friends? Or Jews and muslims? Or Muslims and Christians?

Which one would make a most likely friendship?

Muslims got along well with Jews for centuries. Christians have persecuted Jews to say the least. The Qur'an describes Christians as being nearer to Muslims than Jews.

Jews and Christians at least recognize each other's religion. Nowadays both Christians and Jews see Islam as a kind of enemy. At the same time some Jews consider Muslims allies against the west (Christians?) and some Muslims also actually hold Jews in higher esteem in certain aspects compared to Christians.

Actually Christians came from Jews of Israel.
I am Christians but also of the tribe of Asher of Israel.

 

[74x12]

(By "friends" I here mean any kind of ally in religious terms.)

Taking into account history, should Jews and Christians be friends? Or Jews and muslims? Or Muslims and Christians?

Which one would make a most likely friendship?

Muslims got along well with Jews for centuries. Christians have persecuted Jews to say the least. The Qur'an describes Christians as being nearer to Muslims than Jews.

Jews and Christians at least recognize each other's religion. Nowadays both Christians and Jews see Islam as a kind of enemy. At the same time some Jews consider Muslims allies against the west (Christians?) and some Muslims also actually hold Jews in higher esteem in certain aspects compared to Christians.

All decent people should side together against the cloaked enemy. They don't fight openly and they appear to be Christians, Jews, Muslims. They aren't any of those things. They serve lucifer or satan.

People need to understand satan is real and there is a satanic conspiracy over the world and he rules from the shadows. His kingdom is hidden. Secret. But I know about it. So should everyone who cares about the truth.

 

[Augustus]

Can you be specific?

Jews were dhimmis and the degree that dhimmis were taxed punitively, prohibited from certain thing and given an inferior status changed over time depending on the ruler.

Occasional pogroms occurred in numerous places across the empire

 

[sooda]

Jews were dhimmis and the degree that dhimmis were taxed punitively, prohibited from certain thing and given an inferior status changed over time depending on the ruler.

Occasional pogroms occurred in numerous places across the empire

Jizya was a small tax for able-bodied men who didn't want to serve in defense of the community. It was less than the tax Muslims paid. Muslims didn't want anyone converting to save money. That's Dhimmi.

 

[sooda]

Actually Christians came from Jews of Israel.
I am Christians but also of the tribe of Asher of Israel.

Based on what??????

 

[sooda]

They are antisemitic and hold a grudge over losing multiple wars.



If they are actually refugees not economic migrants, as most are now, abusing the system I have little issues.


Ergo ban Zionists not Jews. See the difference? Do note your source is pre-67 war and Jordan annexation. Also there is this gem

"The question of Bolshevism is outside the scope of this article, but it remains to be said that the European Jewish population of Palestine is already tainted with the tenets of that faith. The Jews of Southeastern Europe are, almost to a man, Bolsheviki. Europe and America cannot allow the possibility of a homogeneous Bolshevist state in Palestine, whence the propagandists would be in an excellent position to preach their doctrines throughout Asia, Africa, and the Mediterranean coasts."


Who ranted about Commie Jews? Had a mustache, pointed a lot, talked like a creep.... Vincent Price! No that's not right.

So what does that have to do with Jordan? Nothing... You bluffed, nothing more.

Books & Authors - 96.11

"You say that "Jewry as a whole was converted to Zionism not by arguments but by events." Is there any way that the state of Israel could have been created, perhaps years later, without the events of the Second World War?" (WTF)

A" More to the point, Israel would have been different if it had been created many years before. It would have been established like New Zealand, or the United States, or Australia. At the time these countries were created, nobody really gave any thought to the rights of the indigenous peoples. The misfortune of Zionism was precisely that it belonged to the twentieth century. When I say that Jewry was converted to Zionism by events, I don't mean that Hitler created Israel, but what Hitler and the Final Solution unquestionably did was to create this identification between western Jewry and the new Jewish State, with the result that Jewish anti-Zionism, which had had a very strong tradition before then, really became morally impossible.

What..... I guess this fool never met a Jew that was against Zionism

Yes.. The article on Zionist Aspirations was written in 1920.

Jews and Bolshevism: Names and Lists. The Council of the ...
heretical.com/miscellx/bolshies.html
Jews and Bolshevism Amongst themselves, the Jews are quite candid about their sympathy for and involvement in Bolshevism. On 4 April 1919 the Jewish Chronicle : “There is much in the fact of Bolshevism itself, in the fact that so many Jews are Bolshevists, in the fact that the ideals of Bolshevism at many points are consonant with the finest ideals of Judaism.”

 

[Augustus]

Jizya was a small tax for able-bodied men who didn't want to serve in defense of the community. It was less than the tax Muslims paid. Muslims didn't want anyone converting to save money. That's Dhimmi.

In the early days, the Arabs didn't want them converting because they paid less as Muslims.

At various times they have been much more heavily taxed, banned from riding horses (or made to ride side-saddle like a woman), forced to wear special clothing, banned from owning guns, been subject to neck-sealing etc.

They have been treated in both punitive and stigmatising regulations.

 

[sooda]

In the early days, the Arabs didn't want them converting because they paid less as Muslims.

At various times they have been much more heavily taxed, banned from riding horses (or made to ride side-saddle like a woman), forced to wear special clothing, banned from owning guns, been subject to neck-sealing etc.

They have been treated in both punitive and stigmatising regulations.

Zakat was always MORE than Jizya. Horses? There were very few horses in Palestine.

 

[Lyndon]

Augustus, you're just not a credible source on this stuff, Tax on Muslims is much higher than non muslims

 

[Augustus]

Zakat was always MORE than Jizya.

Sorry, but that's completely false. There is plenty of historical source evidence against it (also jizya was simply one of the taxes paid by non-Muslims).

However, the most common reports one hears about are the census (taʿdīl) followed by the levying of the jizya, often coupled with sealing, stamping, and branding of the non- Muslim inhabitants. This starts with ʿAbd al-Malik’s famous census followed by the levying of the jizya (signifying capitation tax and not tax generally) for the first time according to the Zuqnīn Chronicle39 and continues with the census of 708/9, when Maslama took control of Mesopotamia and had the lands measured and the vineyards and crops counted, as well as animals and persons. In addition, Maslama is reported to have “hung lead seals on everyone’s necks.”40 In the year 721/2, Dhaḥḥāk, emir of Mesopotamia, conducted a census unknown before.41 Hishām is reported to have oppressed the people with excessive exactions and tribute, higher than all those before him (in this case the sources do not refer specifically to the jizya).42 The chaos in the Umayyad caliphate following Hishām’s rule, which ended with the fall of the dynasty, seems to have either obscured similar cases, or maybe even aided the local non-Muslim population to evade heavy taxation...

[Chronicle of 1234]:

Abu Ja‘far appointed over Mosul Musa ibn Musʿab,45 a wicked and merciless man, and an enemy of the Christians. He thought up torments which the world had never seen before. He increased tribute and multiplied exactions. He attached lead seals to men’s necks and cut off the thumbs of their hands. He demanded tax (gzītā) even for windows and doors with the result that people were digging up old graves to extract gold and silver.
Christians and others in the Umayyad state.


Also, zakat as a % is income dependant, jizya wasn't.