Enemy's enemies are your friends - jews and Christians, unlikely friendship

[Saint Frankenstein]

I believe that is because the Muslims held and may still do, to a three god concept that the Qu'ran told them not to even mention.

What?

 

[1213]

According to the Tanakh as interpreted by Jews, Christianity shouldn't exist.

Please explain why, what does it really say that is interpreted so?

 

[1213]

But not by what the Tanach says. So you see, the problem is that you assume Jews should accept the NT. Jews, however, strongly disagree. This is why Jews see no reason to ally with Christians on the basis of supposedly "being the same".
So, I'll ask again: stupid on whose side?

I don’t claim Jews should accept NT. They should accept the OT and what it says and it is not in contradiction with NT. If one really accepts OT, and is logical, he also accepts NT.

Christians have the same God and the same God’s commandments. That is why I say it is stupid from Jews or Christians to be against each other, when they really have the same God and commandments.

 

[Harel13]

I don’t claim Jews should accept NT. They should accept the OT and what it says and it is not in contradiction with NT. If one really accepts OT, and is logical, he also accepts NT.

You're contradicting yourself. First you say Jews shouldn't accept the NT, then you say they should.

Furthermore, the NT does, in fact, contradict the OT.

Christians have the same God and the same God’s commandments.

Not at all. We have one God. You Christians have some version of god who birthed himself as another god and to add to all that, a third spirit. Not the same thing at all.
Furthermore, while religious Jews do keep the commandments, Christians have decided that there is no need to keep any of the commandments, save for loving god.

 

[Rival]

Please explain why, what does it really say that is interpreted so?

Worship of a man should not exist.

Worship of the Messiah (so believed in) should not exist.

The Trinity should not exist.

The human sacrifice should not exist.

The throwing out of Torah should not exist.

...and so on.

 

[Rival]

OT.

Harel Harel Harel, it stabs when you use this term.

 

[Cooky]

 

[Harel13]

Harel Harel Harel, it stabs when you use this term.

Sorry. I don't think about it too much. I never open the acronym, though.

 

[1213]

Worship of a man should not exist. ...

What you said is not same as Tanakh saying Christianity shouldn't exist. If Christianity is what is taught in the Bible, it is not about worshiping a man.

…The Trinity should not exist. ...

Bible, or NT doesn’t even have the word Trinity in it.

…The human sacrifice should not exist. ..

There is no human sacrificing in that traditional sense of sacrificing. No one killed Jesus as a sacrifice to appease God. It can be said Jesus sacrificed his life for us, because he used his life for us, but it is not the same as sacrificing in attempt to appease God. It can be compared to a soldier who “sacrifices” his life in defending his country.

…The throwing out of Torah should not exist...

There is no throwing out of Torah in the NT.

 

[1213]

You're contradicting yourself. First you say Jews shouldn't accept the NT, then you say they should.

“If one really accepts OT, and is logical, he also accepts NT” is not same as “they should accept NT”.

Furthermore, the NT does, in fact, contradict the OT.

Not at all. We have one God. You Christians have some version of god who birthed himself as another god and to add to all that, a third spirit. Not the same thing at all.

Furthermore, while religious Jews do keep the commandments, Christians have decided that there is no need to keep any of the commandments, save for loving god.

Christianity is not necessary the same as NT. And I say NT doesn’t contradict OT. It is possible that “Christian” people have own contradictory doctrines, but it is not the same as the Bible.

And, NT says there is only one true God that is greater than Jesus who is the image of God.

This is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true God, and him whom you sent, Jesus Christ.
John 17:3

the Father is greater than I.
John 14:28

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
1 Timothy 2:5

in whom we have our redemption, the forgiveness of our sins; who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
Colossians 1:14

And Jesus says also:

Don't think that I came to destroy the law or the prophets. I didn't come to destroy, but to fulfill. For most assuredly, I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not even one smallest letter or one tiny pen stroke shall in any way pass away from the law, until all things are accomplished. Whoever, therefore, shall break one of these least commandments, and teach others to do so, shall be called least in the Kingdom of Heaven; but whoever shall do and teach them shall be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven.
Mat. 5:17-19

I think Jews should really read what Jesus says, before they judge him.

 

[dybmh]

Please explain why, what does it really say that is interpreted so?

Deuteronomy 13:1-3

 

[Harel13]

accepts NT” is not same as “they should accept NT”.

So you meant that Jews are illogical?

And I say NT doesn’t contradict

And I say it does. So?

but it is not the same as the Bible.

But much of it does stem from the NT.

And, NT says there is only one true God that is greater than Jesus who is the image of God.

Yet many Christians believe that in the NT, Jesus stated he was god. And if you tell me that that's doctrinal rubbish, I'll tell you that the "no true Christian" argument doesn't hold water.

I think Jews should really read what Jesus says, before they judge him

Some have. I've read some of it, too. But why bother? The NT is anti-Judaism.

 

[Rival]

What you said is not same as Tanakh saying Christianity shouldn't exist. If Christianity is what is taught in the Bible, it is not about worshiping a man.

The Torah is forever. This means that in Judaic thought, Christian theology is wrong.

The Messiah, who you believe was Jesus, is a man. Christians worship him. That's the whole shtick of Christianity - Jesus worship.

Bible, or NT doesn’t even have the word Trinity in it.

So? It's part of normative Christian theology. You can't pretend it doesn't exist.

There is no human sacrificing in that traditional sense of sacrificing. No one killed Jesus as a sacrifice to appease God. It can be said Jesus sacrificed his life for us, because he used his life for us, but it is not the same as sacrificing in attempt to appease God. It can be compared to a soldier who “sacrifices” his life in defending his country.

Jesus is described as a sacrifice in your scripture and compared to the passover lamb. He was a human. A human sacrifice.

There is no throwing out of Torah in the NT.

There is. Paul tells the Jews they've no need to follow Torah now Jesus has come. No more circumcision, no more sacrifices and offerings, no more Temple, no more holy days, no more.... Torah.

 

[dybmh]

I think Jews should really read what Jesus says, before they judge him.

Uh-huh...

This is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true God, and him whom you sent, Jesus Christ.
John 17:3

Uh-huh...

Since you quoted the Book of John, then I counter with: John 14:6. It's a big problem. It's idolatry to worship through Jesus. If that's what Jesus said, then, I'm sorry to report... What Jesus said, what he prescribed is not Jewish.

 

[dybmh]

The Torah is forever. This means that Christian theology is wrong.

The Messiah, who you believe was Jesus, is a man. Christians worship him. That's the whole shtick of Christianity - Jesus worship.


So? It's part of normative Christian theology. You can't pretend it doesn't exist.


Jesus is described as a sacrifice in your scripture and compared to the passover lamb. He was a human. A human sacrifice.


There is. Paul tells the Jews they've no need to follow Torah now Jesus has come. No more circumcision, no more sacrifices and offerings, no more Temple, no more holy days, no more.... Torah.

this is you in this thread: ( link )

 

[Rival]

I think Jews should really read what Jesus says, before they judge him.

I'm an ex-Christian. I've read the Christian scriptures, been to Church, time and again.

 

[1213]

… Christians worship him. That's the whole shtick of Christianity - Jesus worship…

…So? It's part of normative Christian theology. You can't pretend it doesn't exist…

To me Christian theology is what Jesus and Bible teaches. If “Christians” do other stuff, it is their own thing, not Christian.

…Jesus is described as a sacrifice in your scripture and compared to the passover lamb. He was a human. A human sacrifice…

Yes, he is compared to it, but he is not really human sacrifice in same sense, because no one killed him to appease God.

There is. Paul tells the Jews they've no need to follow Torah now Jesus has come...

Please show the scripture.

 

[1213]

...
Some have. I've read some of it, too. But why bother? The NT is anti-Judaism.

If you have not read it wholly, how can you know? Please show one scripture from NT that is anti-Judaism.

 

[1213]

Deuteronomy 13:1-3

Thank you. It says:

…Let us go after other gods, which you have not known, and let us serve them;…
Deuteronomy 13:1-3

Jesus or NT doesn’t say that people should do so.

 

[1213]

...Since you quoted the Book of John, then I counter with: John 14:6. It's a big problem. It's idolatry to worship through Jesus. If that's what Jesus said, then, I'm sorry to report... What Jesus said, what he prescribed is not Jewish.

It says:

Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father, except through me.
John 14:6

I don’t see how that is worship through Jesus. And what do you think, when in ancient times Jews had priests who did the sacrificing, was it worship through the priests?