England National Health Service to stop supplying puberty blockers for children at gender identity clinics

[icehorse]

here is the WPATH standard of care. please identify these ""highly suspect" protocols

It took me less than a minute to download the document, read the ToC, go to page 33, and see the first sentence under "Hormone Therapy":

I can't copy and paste it but the summary of the sentence is that sometimes hormone therapy is sometimes a "medical necessity" for people with GD.

==

Please find a meta-study that agrees with that advice.

==

And that was after just a minute of looking, sigh.

 

[Argentbear]

It took me less than a minute to download the document, read the ToC, go to page 33, and see the first sentence under "Hormone Therapy":

I can't copy and paste it but the summary of the sentence is that sometimes hormone therapy is sometimes a "medical necessity" for people with GD.

"Feminizing/masculinizing hormone therapy – the administration of exogenous endocrine agents
to induce feminizing or masculinizing changes – is a medically necessary intervention for many
transsexual, transgender, and gender nonconforming individuals with gender dysphoria (Newfield,
Hart, Dibble, & Kohler, 2006; Pfäfflin & Junge, 1998)."

What about it?

==

Please find a meta-study that agrees with that advice.

WPATH provided references see above

==

And that was after just a minute of looking, sigh.

So you didn't look at all.

 

[icehorse]

WPATH provided references see above

And whether you agree or not, many of the top medical institutions in Europe disagree with that claim in the SOC. And if all of those European experts are correct (which seems to me to be common sense), then WPATH's claim is very dangerous indeed.

 

[Argentbear]

And whether you agree or not, many of the top medical institutions in Europe disagree with that claim in the SOC.

Citation?

And if all of those European experts are correct (which seems to me to be common sense), then WPATH's claim is very dangerous indeed.

and whether you like it or not most of Europe follows the WPATH standard of care. Countries using the standard of care include Germany, Italy,
Austria, Belgium, Cyprus, Greece, Hungary, Ireland, the Netherlands, Malta, Norway, Poland Portugal Turkey, Spain, Slovenia, Romania, Bulgaria, Croatia, Georgia, Slovakia, Spain, and Sweden,


You keep accusing the WPATH stands of care of but you can't point to anything in the standard of care that is "dangerous" or "highly suspect"

 

[icehorse]

Citation?

This article (and many others that are easy to find) discuss 6 countries in Europe that are backing away from WPATH's GAC.

And please, we're having a discussion here, it was premature of you to conclude anything about what evidence I can or cannot produce. Let's keep this civil, the well being of troubled kids is at stake, right?

Europe And U.S. Diverge Sharply On Treatment Of Gender Incongruence In Minors

So the question I have for you is this: If you do a little internet searching you'll find many links that discuss how the evidence for GAC is of low quality. Will you do any research? Are you open to changing your mind?

 

[Argentbear]

This article (and many others that are easy to find) discuss 6 countries in Europe that are backing away from WPATH's GAC.

And please, we're having a discussion here, it was premature of you to conclude anything about what evidence I can or cannot produce. Let's keep this civil, the well being of troubled kids is at stake, right?

Europe And U.S. Diverge Sharply On Treatment Of Gender Incongruence In Minors

So the question I have for you is this: If you do a little internet searching you'll find many links that discuss how the evidence for GAC is of low quality. Will you do any research? Are you open to changing your mind?

its easy to find such claims from hate groups and right wingers but just what makes that evidence low quality other than the conclusions are disliked is not addressed.

and I'm still waiting for you to actually identify just what in WPATH standard of care is dangerous and bad.

 

[icehorse]

its easy to find such claims from hate groups and right wingers but just what makes that evidence low quality other than the conclusions are disliked is not addressed.

and I'm still waiting for you to actually identify just what in WPATH standard of care is dangerous and bad.

asked and answered.

As for low quality, Meta studies like the one done for the Cass report use standard guidelines for assessing the quality of research. The Cass report spells all of that out, and it's standard.

 

[McBell]

asked and answered.

As for low quality, Meta studies like the one done for the Cass report use standard guidelines for assessing the quality of research. The Cass report spells all of that out, and it's standard.

Post #66 has destroyed your Cass report and shown it to be pretty much nothing more than trash not worth the paper it is printed on.

So your continued reliance on it is most telling.

 

[icehorse]

Post #66 has destroyed your Cass report and shown it to be pretty much nothing more than trash not worth the paper it is printed on.

So your continued reliance on it is most telling.

Well leading medical authorities in Europe disagree with the idea that the Cass report has been "destroyed" in any way.

What I've observed repeatedly however is that whenever anyone criticizes GAC or WPATH they are labeled "hate groups" or "transphobic", and that's simply and transparently a false accusation. No protocols or organizations or ideologies are above scrutiny.

 

[Argentbear]

Well leading medical authorities in Europe disagree with the idea that the Cass report has been "destroyed" in any way.

What I've observed repeatedly however is that whenever anyone criticizes GAC or WPATH they are labeled "hate groups" or "transphobic", and that's simply and transparently a false accusation.

pointing out the methodological flaws and apparent contradictions of the Cass report is not labeling anyone trasphobic.

No protocols or organizations or ideologies are above scrutiny.

Just as the Cass report is not above scrutiny

 

[icehorse]

Just as the Cass report is not above scrutiny

Agreed. But top medical professionals in six European countries are agreeing with the findings in the Cass report. That's quite telling because all six of these countries are admitting that they got GAC wrong. It's not trivial for a country's medical system to make such an admission.

 

[Argentbear]

Agreed. But top medical professionals in six European countries are agreeing with the findings in the Cass report.

No politicians are, note the significant difference.

 

[icehorse]

No politicians are, note the significant difference.

The politicians are getting their advice from their top medical authorities, as I'm sure you know.

 

[metis]

I still strongly support leaving such decisions up to the teen, his/her parents, and their doctors, including psychologists. If there was any evidence that such therapy would cause irreversible harm, I would obviously change my opinion, but I haven't read of any peer-reviewed evidence for it.

 

[We Never Know]

Question...

If a transgender female, who is still physically male has a relationship with a male... Is that a homosexual relationship?

 

[Argentbear]

I still strongly support leaving such decisions up to the teen, his/her parents, and their doctors, including psychologists. If there was any evidence that such therapy would cause irreversible harm, I would obviously change my opinion, but I haven't read of any peer-reviewed evidence for it.

Interestingly enough this is exactly the position expressed in the much maligned WPATH standard of care guidelines.