England National Health Service to stop supplying puberty blockers for children at gender identity clinics

[We Never Know]

Counting the hits and ignoring the misses does not help you.

That clearly makes no sense.

 

[McBell]

You keep dancing.

Perhaps someone else will find it entertaining.

 

[We Never Know]

Counting the hits and ignoring the misses does not help you.

With all those tears in your eyes for not getting the answer you wanted, you must have missed that this addresses the misses....

Are they prejudice against them, yes.

 

[Argentbear]

Its the same way even where homosexuality is widely accepted.
The Netherlands for example.

Same-Sex Sexual Behavior and Psychiatric Disorders

Background It has been suggested that homosexuality is associated with psychiatric morbidity. This study examined differences between heterosexually and homosexually active subjects in 12-month and lifetime prevalence of DSM-III-R mood, anxiety, and substance use disorders in a...

jamanetwork.com

you think there is no prejudice and no hate in the Netherlands? Do you really thing LGBT kids aren't physically and mentally abuse at rates many times higher than their straight peers?

and again your own quote said it was facing the constant bigotry that was the problem.

 

[We Never Know]

you think there is no prejudice and no hate in the Netherlands? Do you really thing LGBT kids aren't physically and mentally abuse at rates many times higher than their straight peers?

and again your own quote said it was facing the constant bigotry that was the problem.

Why do you always twist my words? Until you can reply to what I say instead of twisting my words to what you want, we are done.

I never said or insinuated I think there is no prejudice and no hate in the Netherlands?

I said in the Netherlands homosexuality is widely accepted

 

[Argentbear]

Because children are the most vulnerable of individuals.

so its just your personal prejudice

 

[Argentbear]

Why do you always twist my words? Until you can reply to what I say instead of twisting my words to what you want, we are done.

I never said or insinuated I think there is no prejudice and no hate in the Netherlands?

I said in the Netherlands homosexuality is widely accepted

compared to what?

 

[Argentbear]

Stuke, H., Heinz, A., & Bermpohl, F. (2020). Acceptance Towards LGB Persons Is an Independent Protective Factor Against Suicide on a Country Level.
Found that yes indeed public acceptance of LGBT individuals does lower the suicide rate . So again your link was correct, being gay doesn't lead to suicidal behavior, being hated does.

 

[Watchmen]

"All the evidence is in! And it says X!"
"Here are dozens of studies that explicitly contradict you and present mountains of evidence against X."
"I bet you didn't even read them! You just Googled that! America bad!"

Great reasoning. Clearly we are dealing with the intellectual cream of the crop in these scientific debates.


Literal ad hominem.

Good stuff. No doubt I bet your fellow "totally pro-logic, anti fallacy" bedfellows will be incredibly quick to jump on this incredibly obvious, clear and unambiguous example of an ad hominem fallacy in action.

And you didn’t answer my simple question. Deflect. Deflect. Deflect. Your debate prowess is unparalleled!

 

[ImmortalFlame]

And you didn’t answer my simple question. Deflect. Deflect. Deflect. Your debate prowess is unparalleled!

Remarkable irony in this post.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

No. Woke is an unrealistic obsession over an agenda and usually is emotionally drivin to a point that can be best described as fanatical to the point of hysterics.

So, you and icehorse are "woke" about trans people?

 

[Twilight Hue]

So, you and icehorse are "woke" about trans people?

I really don't care about LGBT issues one way or another aside from it being interesting enough to interact on the subject, but I do support treating people as human beings even if their lifestyle is categorically alternative in nature and not representative of the majority of people.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

I really don't care about LGBT issues

I totally believe you.

 

[Twilight Hue]

The thing is they are not and there is significant evidence that these medications can help trans youth cope and have time to work with qualified therapists.

The thing is they are dangerous and can affect people for a lifetime who take them.

Note/Disclaimer....it's a Christian site, but It does link sources within.

Study: Effects of puberty-blockers can last a lifetime

Data debunk a common rationale for giving kids transgender treatment

wng.org

 

[ImmortalFlame]

The thing is they are dangerous and can affect people for a lifetime who take them.

Note/Disclaimer....it's a Christian site, but It does link sources within.

Study: Effects of puberty-blockers can last a lifetime

Data debunk a common rationale for giving kids transgender treatment

wng.org

Except its sources don't say what the article says. The study clearly says it's about "short term outcomes", while the article claims it's a "long-term study".

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.12.01.20241653v1.full.pdf

Literally the conclusion in the paper:
"Overall patient experience of changes on GnRHa treatment was positive. We identified no changes in psychological function. Changes in BMD were consistent with suppression of growth. Larger and longer-term prospective studies using a range of designs are needed to more fully quantify the benefits and harms of pubertal suppression in GD."

What's also remarkably telling is that, of all the source provided (most of which are just social media comments), it provides as an example a court case whose judgement was overturned.

Bell v Tavistock - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Surprisingly enough, this Christian site is misrepresenting science. Weird how you didn't pick up on that.

 

[stvdv]

So, it all comes down to the question:
"Who Am I"
Answer:
* You are not the body
* You are not the mind
* You are not the emotions

Be true your to your real Self

Hence

Better teach them about "Who Am I"
That would solve any of these issues

Tackle the root cause
Not the symptoms

 

[Argentbear]

I really don't care about LGBT issues one way or another aside from it being interesting enough to interact on the subject, but I do support treating people as human beings even if their lifestyle is categorically alternative in nature and not representative of the majority of people.

How big of you.

 

[Argentbear]

The thing is they are dangerous and can affect people for a lifetime who take them.

Note/Disclaimer....it's a Christian site, but It does link sources within.

Study: Effects of puberty-blockers can last a lifetime

Data debunk a common rationale for giving kids transgender treatment

wng.org

Your link seems to be a secondary reporting of claims made by Michael Laidlow is an anti-trans activist for hire.

what Laidlow reported and what the actual study found was markedly different.
for example: your link reported: "Endocrinologist Michael Laidlaw from Rocklin, Calif., noted that children in the study who took puberty blockers exhibited significantly less bone density than their peers. That causes stunted height and puts them at greater risk for osteoporosis and fractures in adulthood, he said."

The study reported "There was no change from baseline in spine BMD at 12 months nor in hip BMD at 24 and 36 months, but at 24 months lumbar spine BMC and BMD were higher than at baseline (BMC +6.0 (95% CI: 4.0, 7.9); BMD +0.05 (0.03, 0.07)).

Yeah the study itself said that bone density of the youths on puberty blockers improved.

your article said "participants reported no improvement in their psychological well-being." What your article doesn't say was that the study participants had good psychological functioning at the beginning of treatment and stated the same during and after treatment

 

[Watchmen]

Remarkable irony in this post.

In post #150? Yes. Very ironic.

 

[Watchmen]

Achille, C., Taggart, T., Eaton, N.R., Osipoff, J., Tafuri, K., Lane, A., & Wilson, T.A. (2020). Longitudinal impact of gender-affirming endocrine intervention on the mental health and well-being of transgender youths

Chew, D., Anderson, J., Williams, K., May, T., & Pang, K. (2018). Hormonal treatment in young people with gender dysphoria: A systematic review.

Cohen-Kettenis, P.T., Schagen, S.E.E., Steensma, T.D., DeVries, A.L.C., & Delemarre-van de Waal, H.A. (2021). Puberty suppression in gender-dysphoric adolescent: A 22 -year follow-up.

de Vries, A.L.C., Steensma, T.D., Doreleijers, T.A.H., & Cohen-Kettenis, P.T. (2021). Puberty suppression in adolescents with gender identity disorder

Edwards-Leeper, L., Leibowitz, S., & Sangganjanavanich, V.F. (2016). Affirmative practice with transgender and gender nonconforming youth

Gallagher, J.S., Missmer, S.A., Hornstein, M.D., Laufer, M.R., Gordon, C.M., & DiVasta, A.D. (2018). Long-term effects of gonadotropin-releasing agonists

Khatchadourian, K., Amed, S., & Metzer, D.L. (2014). Clinical management of youth with gender dysphoria in Vancouver.

Krishna, K.B., Fuqua, J.S., Rogol, A.D., Klein, K.O., Popovic, J., Houk, C.P., … & Lee, P.A. (2019). Use of gonadotropin-releasing ormone analogs in children

Lynn Rew (2020) Review: Puberty blockers for transgender and gender diverse youth—a critical review of the literature

Olson-Kennedy, J., Chan, Y.-M., Garofalo, R., Spack, N., Chen, D., Clark, L., … & Rosenthal, S. (2019). Impact of early medical treatment for transgender youth:

Ruby Grant, Natalie Amos, Ashleigh Lin, Teddy Cook, Adam O. Hill, Ken Pang, Rachel S. Skinner, Marina Carman, Adam Bourne, (2024) Mental health and wellbeing outcomes associated with social, medical, and legal gender affirmation among trans young people in Australia,

Schagen, S.E.E., Cohen-Kettenis, P.T., Delemarre-van de Waal, H.A., & Hannema, S.E. (2016). Efficacy and safety of gonadotropin-releasing hormone agonist treatment to suppress puberty in gender dysphoric adolescents.

Schneider, M.A., Spritzer, P.M., Soll, B.M.B., Fontanari, A.M.V., Carneiro, M., Tovar-Moll, F., … & Lobato, M.I.R. (2017). Brain maturation, cognition and voice pattern in a gender dysphoria case under pubertal suppression.

Turban, J.L. (2017). Transgender youth: The building evidence base for early social transition.

Turban, J.L., King, D., Carswell, J.M., & Keuroghlian, A.S. (2020). Pubertal suppression for transgender youth and risk of suicidal ideation.

Vlot, M.C., Klink, D., den Heijer, M., Blankenstein, M.A., Rotteveel, J., & Heijboer, A. (2017). Effect of pubertal suppression and cross-sex hormone therapy on bone turnover markers and bone mineral apparent density (BMAD) in transgender adolescents

Vrouenraets, L.J.J.J., Fredriks, A.M., Hannema, S.E., Cohen-Kettenis, P.T., & DeVries, M.C. (2015). Early medical treatment of children and adolescents with gender dysphoria

Vrouenraets, L.J.J.J., Fredriks, A.M., Hannema, S.E., Cohen-Kettenis, P.T., & DeVries, M.C. (2016). Perceptions of sex, gender, and puberty suppression: A qualitative analysis of transgender youth

all these studies and hundreds of others say you are wrong.

Since no one here will admit to having actually read any of these, I decided to read one myself. And guess what? It did NOT prove me wrong. To the contrary, it acknowledged no long term data and said results among the adolescents studied were mixed. And note only 13 people participated in this “study.”

Do you have anything better?