Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
So Minneapolis, not Seattle.
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Entitled and owed
- Thread starter We Never Know
- Start date
Air to breath. And even that comes at expense in energy used.
Heyo
Veteran Member
You also have to take productivity into account.
People today don't work as hard but 2 and a half times as hard for the same wages.
I feel that I'm entitled to a roof over my head, food, clothing etc due to being a human being.
You worked before many jobs became automated.
The more jobs become automated, the less number of humans that are actually able to find decent jobs.
Those people still deserve basic living conditions even though they don't have the means to gain them.
You may think differently now, but had automation taken over your only means of gaining what you have back in your day I believe you would have thought differently too.
In my opinion.
I'm entitled to agreed upon compensation for my work and to the money I've loaned.
I'm not entitled to any respect I haven't earned.
Interesting response. Aside from your pension, which you clearly earned, why do you feel you're entitled to something that is generated and furnished by others?
PureX
Veteran Member
I think the thread's question is BS. As it implies that something owed is something earned. Which is quite biased, and quite stupid.
We humans are a collective, cooperative species. We cannot survive without each other. Such that our well being is intertwined with everyone else's. So what we "owe" is our alliegence to and with our fellow humans, and what they owe us is the same in return. We don't leave our sick and injured to die on their own because they are a burden, because they are 'of us'. Their well being is our well being. Just as their achievements are also ours to benefit from.
What we all owe each other is a fair and equal chance to achieve what we can. And to share those achievements with each other. As well as a helping hand when we fail, for whatever reason.
We are not lone wolves. We never were. And it's time we stop wallowing in that selfish fantasy.
We humans are a collective, cooperative species. We cannot survive without each other. Such that our well being is intertwined with everyone else's. So what we "owe" is our alliegence to and with our fellow humans, and what they owe us is the same in return. We don't leave our sick and injured to die on their own because they are a burden, because they are 'of us'. Their well being is our well being. Just as their achievements are also ours to benefit from.
What we all owe each other is a fair and equal chance to achieve what we can. And to share those achievements with each other. As well as a helping hand when we fail, for whatever reason.
We are not lone wolves. We never were. And it's time we stop wallowing in that selfish fantasy.
Hermit Philosopher
Selflessly here for you
Eh… why?
Sorry, I’ve not clicked link but am curious as to your personal argument for wanting the “same opportunities and buying power as those born 60 years before”.
Surely you today have many other opportunities that they entirely lacked?
You have your time’s opportunities instead.
Humbly,
Hermit
wellwisher
Well-Known Member
The Constitution has the Bill of Rights and not the Bill of Entitlements. The entitlement mentality is a Lefty pushed modeled on the Monarchy. The King and Queen are entitled to own all the land. They are entitled. This is not because of effort but based on tradition.
In America, we have the right to pursue happiness, but we are not entitled to be happy like the King and Queen. Forcing other to sacrifice; via taxes or higher costs, to cover higher free market wages, so you can be happy, is an entitlement, and not a right. This is not covered under the Constitution. The Constitution assumes the citizens will put out effort and not be dependent children.
The big problem for the entitlements of the Left, is there have required huge debt and deficits, which are not sustainable. The borrowing created a false positive.
Rights are cheaper than entitlements, since rights require the individual participare in their own upkeep. The deficit and debt problem is going to limit and reverse entitlements, to genuine need, and not just whining for a freebie we can no longer afford by adding debt.
In America, we have the right to pursue happiness, but we are not entitled to be happy like the King and Queen. Forcing other to sacrifice; via taxes or higher costs, to cover higher free market wages, so you can be happy, is an entitlement, and not a right. This is not covered under the Constitution. The Constitution assumes the citizens will put out effort and not be dependent children.
The big problem for the entitlements of the Left, is there have required huge debt and deficits, which are not sustainable. The borrowing created a false positive.
Rights are cheaper than entitlements, since rights require the individual participare in their own upkeep. The deficit and debt problem is going to limit and reverse entitlements, to genuine need, and not just whining for a freebie we can no longer afford by adding debt.
I think trust is earned but should be respect is given regardless
I don't think I am automatically entitled to anything or owed anything. As a typical human, I do expect other humans to respect my right to live, and living in a civilised country - as per most - I would also expect some other things that are dear to that civilisation and maintain it.
Such as - a basic level of respect (and not dependent upon who I might be), and where such might rise or fall depending upon my behaviour; some basic rights as to what work I could do and as to other freedoms as long as such don't harm others - and this obeying the laws of whatever society in which I live; the right to believe what I want - and again as long as such doesn't harm others; no doubt many more too.
Why would I expect or want any of these? Why would I want tyranny or chaos instead.
Many things.
Because I exist and have needs. I didn't ask to exist. I simply exist. Therefore somebody owes me the things though no one in particular.
The question is: "Should I take them from someone else?" Unfortunately other people have rights to their things, so its unclear whether I should take the things that I am owed.
Guitar's Cry
Disciple of Pan
So are those who have means entitled? For instance, if a person receives a large inheritance, are they entitled to all the benefits that goes along with wealth? Even if they never worked for it?
If a person creates something, say some digital software, sells it to a big company, and gains wealth from this, are they more entitled to that wealth than a factory worker who puts more time and labor into producing goods for the community? Are they, by virtue of that wealth more entitled to quality healthcare than that worker? Do they deserve a home and second home in Florida more than the factory deserves their apartment?
My point to this is that our economic system doesn't favor hard work anymore than it does just having wealth regardless of its acquisition. It even punishes the lack of wealth, regardless of how hard that person works. It doesn't seem like hard work is necessarily valued. Inherited wealth (like royalty) is an entitlement that has benefits that outweigh just working hard and contributing to the community.
Daemon Sophic
Avatar in flux
It took me two pages of reading through this before I started to notice what @We Never Know was actually trying to ask in the OP.
He is completely disregarding anything that you or prior generations may have actually worked to earn, such as income, Medicare, Medicaid, (or similar government dues to their workers), pensions, etc…
Instead what I think he is trying to ask is,….Do you feel that you are entitled to (or owed) anything for absolutely free, just by being born.
Therefore the question in the OP from @We Never Know has very little to do with anything in our real lives beyond what @PureX outlined in post #48.
Alien826
No religious beliefs
I was thinking about writing that exact response, and you've done it for me. Thank you!
Let me add that as a cooperative species we survive, and thrive, much better than we would as individuals. So much so that we produce a surplus beyond what is needed for pure survival, which enables us to support people that don't directly contribute but still add value. Examples are philosophers and (maybe) priests. So it is in our interest to support the cooperative system, and not advocate a rugged individualistic way of life, for quite selfish reasons.
Alien826
No religious beliefs
Tut tut. Don't you know that the rich are rich because they work really hard and/or are really clever? As opposed to the poor who are poor because they are lazy and/or stupid? /sarcasm
PureX
Veteran Member
Sure, just ask any rich person, they'll tell ya all about it.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Actually, yeah, they are, like how it entitles us to freedom of the press, to a trial by jury amd various protections against the state during a criminal investigation and trial proceedings (that's most of the first 10).
It's not about job opportunities, but actually being paid at a rate that matches societies forward momentum and inflation.