Entitlements?

[Alceste]

No, I get it. You were so much better than today's youth. Just like your father was so much better than the youth of your day. Just like his father was so much better than the youth of his day, etc. We get it. You walked to school uphill both ways, with no shoes and no jacket in 4 feet of snow.

Now, let's look at your math.

You made $1.65/hour. To save $1,000 in a year at that rate, you'd have to put away 12 hours worth of your pay a week. The down payment for your house was $5,400. This $1,000 was 19% of that down payment.

Now, a kid these days would make $7.50/hour. If this kid saved 12 hours worth of pay a week for a year, they would end up with $4,700. The down payment for a similar house now would be $35,000. 19% of that would be $6,700. So, doing the same exact thing you did, they'd be left with 13% of their down payment, rather than 19% of it.

And by the way, not too many teenagers saved money like that in your day either. But you're welcome to go ahead and keep pretending that your generation is so much better than the current one. It won't ever come true, but I guess it'll make you feel better about yourself.

More importantly, it makes him feel better about the fact that his own insatiable demand for high return on his investment - especially property investments and those dependent on a global labour market - placed an unmanageable economic burden on the shoulders of upcoming generations, leading to declining birth rates and a global economic meltdown.

My grandmother and her siblings used to like to brag about how much smarter their generation was about money until I showed her the graph and she thought about it for a bit. Now she regularly says things like "The experts are saying my kids will be the last generation that is able to put away any retirement savings" and looks worried and guilty. She should be worried! She's been retired for longer than she ever worked - almost entirely due to good luck in the housing market - but her grandchildren and great-grandchildren will probably have to work until they die. I'd rather she didn't feel guilty though - like the rest of us, she's a product of her culture and behaved predictably.

I'm not even saying having to work is a bad thing - we all need something to do. I'm just saying the fact that she's basically been on holiday for 35 years while her kids and grandkids pay for her health care and pension and shoulder the burden of the property bubble that let her retire in her 50s made her early dissertations about the superior work ethic of her generation sound ridiculous, eventually even to her.

 

[Revoltingest]

That's awesome. I just wish someone could tell me what any of this has to do with anything.

Things that people think they need are usually just things they're used to having.
To not have some things ain't so bad at all.

 

[Alceste]

Things that people think they need are usually just things they're used to having.
To not have some things ain't so bad at all.

Not having a house kind of sucks, to be honest. Let's stay on point. If I saved every penny I spend on my cell phone to put towards a downpayment on a house it would take me 60 years to save 20% of the price of an entry level property in this market. Give me your logic as to why having a cell phone (and no land line or cable) indicates it's my own fault I can't afford to buy a house please.

 

[work in progress]

What on earth are you rambling on about? I didn't even GET any of the stats I posted from Fox News sources. I didn't even know Fox used any of these very readily available stats - and why would that be? Because I watch very little Fox News.

Personally, I don't care where you got it from, although Foxnews was the main organ of dissemination of this propaganda from the Heritage Foundation. Mediamatters identifies Foxnews clowns Bill O'Reilly and Stuart Varney as the point men for what became the talking point of the day for all of the other Foxnews hosts:
Fox Cites Ownership Of Appliances To Downplay Hardship Of Poverty In America

And then all of the other clowns in rightwing corporate media, from the radio hosts to the rightwing columnists and bloggers are off and running....so you were informed as the talking point was passed down the line.

 

[Alceste]

Personally, I don't care where you got it from, although Foxnews was the main organ of dissemination of this propaganda from the Heritage Foundation. Mediamatters identifies Foxnews clowns Bill O'Reilly and Stuart Varney as the point men for what became the talking point of the day for all of the other Foxnews hosts:
Fox Cites Ownership Of Appliances To Downplay Hardship Of Poverty In America

And then all of the other clowns in rightwing corporate media, from the radio hosts to the rightwing columnists and bloggers are off and running....so you were informed as the talking point was passed down the line.

Give her SOME credit. She gets her right wing propaganda directly from the Heritage Foundation - not filtered through Fox News lol.

 

[dust1n]

If Herman Cain can float his 999 plan, then I have my 20-20-20 plan.....

Every adult is handed $20K per year by Uncle Sam.
Every person pays a flat 20% income tax, with no personal deductions.
The tax code can't be longer than will fit on 20 pages.

......wait, what?

 

[dust1n]

The top 1% is worth every penny where the 20,000 dollar guy is lucky to even have a job. If this person is so under paid, why not find a better job, learn a trade or go back to school and make something of themselves instead of expecting to be a mediocre employee making excellent pay?

:biglaugh:

Wait, are you worth every penny, when most of those pennies are fraudulent?

 

[dust1n]

Whoah, man. You honestly believe the inherent value of a billionaire's life is tens of millions of times that of an employee in the service industry? Don't let that get around to the people who fix your sandwiches if you know what's good for you.

Personally, I think that is an insane attitude. What have the likes of Bernie Madoff and the Enron crew done for you lately that has made you so idolatrous?

No kidding. I almost blew my brains out cause it's almost a confirmation to the complete wreckage and slavery of my generation...

 

[Alceste]

I love this:

But there is a reason for poverty in America. There's almost always a reason attached to poverty. And it's not the capitalist system's fault. It's usually personal responsibility or something like that.

"I actually have no idea what the reason behind all this terrible poverty is, but I'm going to claim it has nothing to do with capitalism anyway!"

http://s3.amazonaws.com/kym-assets/entries/icons/original/000/005/180/****that.jpg?1302809593

 

[dust1n]

Quit blaming Wall Street and focus on the free trade agreements Washington has imposed upon all of us.

You want a living wage? Supply and demand baby! Cut the supply of cheap goods and we will have a demand that will require more jobs than we can handle.

I'm all for eliminating free trade as that is obviously the reason for the global economic meltdown, but Wall Street is just as much as a reason as Washington because Wall Street pays for and owns Washington, and directly occupies it, especially the Department of Finance. They are synonymous. It is not productive to forget ALL that are culpable. But consumers and citizens have been held powerless pretty much since the removal of the Stegall-Act. We need anti-trust as much as we need fair trade, cause the latter will never come after the former.

 

[Magic Man]

Things that people think they need are usually just things they're used to having.
To not have some things ain't so bad at all.

I'm still missing the point. Did anyone here say you need air conditioning or a TV? These days you do pretty much need internet access and a phone, though, and some sort of transportation. But no one is saying everyone has to have a TV or the newest phone, etc. The problem is you guys assuming that poor people have more than they do. Even if someone has a cell phone and TV, what does that mean?

 

[dust1n]

I'd prefer that we focus on one of
the other root causes of our competitive decline - regulatory burdens & tax costs. (For my lefty friends, let me remind that I don't want to sacrifice safety or do
away with taxes.)

If tax codes can be simplified and implemented in a way to help reduce poverty and if unnecessary or counterproductive regulations exist but can be improved, restructured, or made effective, I have no problems with this.

 

[dust1n]

I believe that everyone should be paying SOME federal income tax.

If the federal state fails at letting others enjoy the benefits of their exists and gain access to a fair and reasonable livelihood, than those others shouldn't be indebted to something that has not served them.

 

[dust1n]

If we really want to fix things, everyone will have to do more than they presently are.

I'd love to. Too bad there are no employers around here, offering any real job with a potential for advancement...

 

[Revoltingest]

I'm still missing the point.

I suspected.

 

[Magic Man]

I suspected.

In other words, your point really was "We were so much better than people today. These darn people just want something for nothing, and aren't willing to work for it. And they've got more stuff than we did, but we didn't mind". That's what I figured. Please just ignore our debunking of that nonsense, then.

 

[Revoltingest]

In other words, your point really was "We were so much better than people today. These darn people just want something for nothing, and aren't willing to work for it. And they've got more stuff than we did, but we didn't mind". That's what I figured. Please just ignore our debunking of that nonsense, then.

What an inventive mind you have.

 

[Magic Man]

What an astute mind you have.

Fixed it for you.

 

[Alceste]

I'm still missing the point. Did anyone here say you need air conditioning or a TV? These days you do pretty much need internet access and a phone, though, and some sort of transportation. But no one is saying everyone has to have a TV or the newest phone, etc. The problem is you guys assuming that poor people have more than they do. Even if someone has a cell phone and TV, what does that mean?

It means nothing. It's totally ludicrous comparing our easy access to cheap, flashy trinkets and baubles to our increasing lack of access to fundamental human necessities like housing, health care and education. I would have to buy a hundred state-of-the-art televisions (retail, and who DOES that?) before the money I squandered would be equal to a downpayment on the most run-down trailer home I can find. I'd have to have twelve cell phone plans identical to my current plan before the cost would be equal to payments on a 30 year mortgage on that trailer home. On top of that, any idiot can see that home buyers who buy now are going to get a total soaking - in a couple years their "investments" will be worth a fraction of the remaining payments left on their mortgage.

I really want one of these preening baby boomers to try to answer this question: Who cares how many of your old TVs we can find in dumpsters? Where the hell are we supposed to LIVE?

 

[Magic Man]

I really want one of these preening baby boomers to try to answer this question: Who cares how many of your old TVs we can find in dumpsters? Where the hell are we supposed to LIVE?

Good luck getting an answer to that. They seem to prefer to repeat tired facts that seem to support their biases.

"Well, I didn't have a phone or TV, so these poor people can do without one."

OK, and when they get rid of their TV and phone, and they still can't afford shelter, or food on a regular basis, then what?