Ephesians verses that possibly contradicts Mormon beliefs

[DeepShadow]

This, then, becomes a problem of the LDS church teaching its members false doctrine without telling those members that what they are presenting is fiction.

It's not false doctrine or fiction. It's interpretation, and it's clearly labeled as such.

What is the point of presenting fiction/speculation as truth?

It's not presented as truth, it's presented as counsel.

C'mon, did you really think that the girl on About.com is an official representative of the church? She was never called to this position by a church authority, nor do they oversee any of her statements. She's a freelance writer and lay member, nothing more.

 

[ἀλήθεια]

It's not false doctrine or fiction. It's interpretation, and it's clearly labeled as such.

Show me the labeling please.

It's not presented as truth, it's presented as counsel.

C'mon, did you really think that the girl on About.com is an official representative of the church? She was never called to this position by a church authority, nor do they oversee any of her statements. She's a freelance writer and lay member, nothing more.

What about people like Joseph Smith, Joseph Fielding Smith, Spencer W. Kimball, etc. Are their quotes only counsel? Why are they quoted and their quotes not presented as only counsel?

 

[DeepShadow]

Apart from disclaimers in the various texts you cite, here's a press release to the effect that I've quoted.

 

[ἀλήθεια]

Apart from disclaimers in the various texts you cite, here's a press release to the effect that I've quoted.

Where is the disclaimer in the various church manuals? Is it in the front of the manual or in the back?

The press release you referred me to is dated 4 May 2007. Before that time what were members of the LDS church supposed to believe?

And according to the verses cited in the OP, man is saved apart from anything he does. Why would James E. Talmage teach the following, if his statement contradicts one of your authoritative sources of doctrine, the Bible:

"The sectarian dogma of justification by faith alone has exercised an influence for evil. The idea upon which this pernicious doctrine was founded was at first associated with that of an absolute predestination, by which man was foredoomed to destruction, or to an undeserved salvation"
(Talmage, The Articles of Faith, p. 432)

The Bible says:

For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness (Romans 4:3)"

Why would Heber C. Kimball teach:

"I have power to save myself, and if I do not save myself, who will save me? All have that privilege, and naught can save us but obedience to the commandments of God."

Why would other leaders contradict the Bible? Why would Doctrine & Covenants 130:20-21 state that God only blesses upon obedience to laws if Abraham's faith was counted for righteousness?

The Bible says:

Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. (Romans 4:4-5)

ἀλήθεια

 

[DeepShadow]

Where is the disclaimer in the various church manuals? Is it in the front of the manual or in the back?

Depends on the manual. I just checked the one in front of me, and it's in the front. Ensign IIRC has it in front. Don't know about the rest.

The press release you referred me to is dated 4 May 2007. Before that time what were members of the LDS church supposed to believe?

This was only the most recent of such statements. There have been many, many others.

And according to the verses cited in the OP, man is saved apart from anything he does. Why would James E. Talmage teach the following, if his statement contradicts one of your authoritative sources of doctrine, the Bible:

Presumably with more context the apparent contradiction would resolve itself, just like the illusory contradiction between Paul (faith and not works) and James (faith by works).

 

[ἀλήθεια]

I cannot find this disclaimer in any of the following:

Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual, copyright 1981 by Corporation of the President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

My Kingdom Shall Roll Forth, copyright 1979, 1980 by Corporation of the President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

Gospel Doctrine, Volume 1, A Course of Study for the Melchizedek Priesthood Quorums1970-71, copyright 1939, Deseret Book Company, Published by the First Presidency of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

Selections from Answers to Gospel Questions, A Course of Study for the Melchizedek Priesthood Quorums1972-73, Published by the First Presidency of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

Search These Commandments, Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide, copyright 1984, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

Maybe you would be so kind as to tell me which page(s) it is on if I inadvertantly missed it.

Thank you so much.

ἀλήθεια

 

[BLang]

The LDS was disproven by Jesus when he said, "upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." Mat 16: 18 That means Christianity didn't die out with the Apostles to be revived with Joseph Smith.
History also disproves the LDS! There is absolutely no evidence of the tribes and animals the book of Mormon speaks of! Yet it is considered equal to the bible!

 

[Katzpur]

The LDS was disproven by Jesus when he said, "upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." Mat 16: 18 That means Christianity didn't die out with the Apostles to be revived with Joseph Smith.

The gates of hell didn't prevail against the Church. Evidently you're reading a 21st century interpretation into Jesus' statement. Do you have any idea at all what the phrase, "the gates of hell" would have meant to the Apostles?

History also disproves the LDS! There is absolutely no evidence of the tribes and animals the book of Mormon speaks of! Yet it is considered equal to the bible!

There's no evidence of the tablets on which the Ten Commandments were written, no evidence of a great flood, and no evidence that a Virgin gave birth to God's Son. And yet you believe all of them.

 

[bmxdad2001]

Hello everyone. I am a new member to this forum and I would like to make my first comment if I may. First off, what I am about to share is absolutely true, although many may disagree with me. I am a former Latter Day Saint. The spiritual blessings I have experienced in my last 20 years of being a Latter day Saint, well let’s just saying I would not trade them for all the money in the world. However I left the church just over 6 months ago. I do not have any bitter feelings toward the LDS church or any other church as a matter of fact. But the truth of the matter is that my personal relationship with God is what led me to make this decision. I have personally found that the Kingdom of God is within me not within the walls of any particular building or church. There are just too many errors that are being taught all over the world today in just about every church in existence. I guess that happens when you throw man into the equation with God. First off let me clarify that Joseph smith was a prophet of God. Yes he did make mistakes. We must realize that he was only human like everyone else here in this forum. However the mantle of prophecy ended when he was martyred. The truth is a person may only receive the mantle of a prophet if the Lord or a past prophet with authority were to lay their hands on that individual personally and ordain him to that position. Please understand that I am in no way criticizing anyone here, just clarifying things. Brigham Young never received that prophetic mantle of authority. He did become the next president of the church, however not a prophet. We have had many wonderful Presidents of the church who have been an inspiration to many since Joseph Smith. However it becomes a serious issue when one claims to be a prophet, seer and revelator of God. Only God can appoint this, not man. Do I claim to know all? No I do not! However I do know what the Lord has revealed to me personally and I cannot deny it in any way. There are many other things that I could share here pertaining to God that I have found to be true. However I would end up writing a book here! So what religion am I now? I am a personal child of God who knows Jesus Christ as his savior. Blessings to you all through his holy name. Amen.

 

[Unification]

Not meaning to start an argument, just looking for answers.

Ephesians 2: 8-9 KJV

8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9Not of works, lest any man should boast.



Isn't it a belief of Latter Day Saints that it is through our works that we achieve salvation?


Insight would be appreciated.


MM

Every good thing an individual does is from the spirit within. No one can boast because we are merely mind, flesh, and heart, etc. The Lord works through us. Even the sinner does good sometimes. Once we see ourselves for as we are and know that the Lord dwells inside of every individual, we'll be in much better shape. We must destroy the Satan within (our ego, pride, carnal minds, carnal fleshly desires, self center ness, our wills and ways, our empire, etc.)