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Errors in the Quran

Godobeyer

the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
Premium Member
Sahih Al-Bukhari
Volume 1, Book 5, Number 277:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

The Prophet said, "The (people of) Bani Israel used to take bath naked (all together) looking at each other. The Prophet Moses used to take a bath alone. They said, ‘By Allah! Nothing prevents Moses from taking a bath with us except that he has a scrotal hernia.’ So once Moses went out to take a bath and put his clothes over a stone and then that stone ran away with his clothes. Moses followed that stone saying, ‘My clothes, O stone! My clothes, O stone!’ till the people of Bani Israel saw him and said, ‘By Allah, Moses has got no defect in his body.’ Moses took his clothes and began to beat the stone." Abu Huraira added, "By Allah! There are still six or seven marks present on the stone from that excessive beating." :D
i never hear this befor .

I check out , and i found out this is a FAKE hadith .

Neither can trees and stones talk

u Huraira (ra) reported Allah's Messenger (saas) as saying:

“The Last Hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews. The Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: ‘Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him;’ but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews.”
(Sahih Muslim, Kitab al-Fitan wa Ashrat as-Sa'ah, Book 41, 6985)

Nothing is too absurd for a believer!
I will check the credibility of this Hadith , because there is other one said it's "disbelievers " NOT "jews"
 
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GoodbyeDave

Well-Known Member
There are many problematic passages in the Koran. For example,

The Jews say Ezra is the son of God. (Surah 9)
Alexander the Great lived to be old (Surah 18)
The Christian trinity comprises Father, Mother, and Son. (Surah 5)

If this is the word of God, should he not be better informed? And don't tell me there are factual errors in the Bible. The idea that the Bible is the word of God is largely post-Reformation. In antiquity, Augustine wrote an essay in which he said that only the moral and religious teaching is inspired; the rest is the opinion of the human authors.
 

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
We often read claims made by Muslims, that the Quran contains miracles that prove the Quran is the word of God. However, under scrutiny these claims are always found wanting for various reasons.

This thread will highlight the fact that rather than containing miracles, the Quran is guilty of making many errors. Just the type of errors you would expect from someone living in the Arabian peninsula during the 7th century.

Before we look at the first error it's worth pointing out that the Quran mentions a number of times that it is a book that makes the signs clear and easy to understand to it's 7th century audience:

036.069
YUSUFALI: We have not instructed the (Prophet) in Poetry, nor is it meet for him: this is no less than a Message and a Qur'an making things clear:

054.017
YUSUFALI: And We have indeed made the Qur'an easy to understand and remember: then is there any that will receive admonition?

The Koran was a book authored to convince its 7th century audience it was from God and that the signs were made clear to them. These verses are worth bearing in mind especially when we look at the 'scientific verses' of the Koran.


The first error we will look at is found is surah 37, which mentions an unusually big fish:


37.139
YUSUFALI: So also was Jonah among those sent (by Us).
037.140
YUSUFALI: When he ran away (like a slave from captivity) to the ship (fully) laden,
037.141
YUSUFALI: He (agreed to) cast lots, and he was condemned:
037.142
YUSUFALI: Then the big Fish did swallow him, and he had done acts worthy of blame.
037.143
YUSUFALI: Had it not been that he (repented and) glorified Allah,
037.144
YUSUFALI: He would certainly have remained inside the Fish till the Day of Resurrection.


So, according to the Koran there is a huge fish that can swallow a man whole!
Not only this, but after being swallowed he remained alive afterwards. The Koran then claims he would have remained inside the fish till the judgement day had he not repented!

The Koran has made many errors in the surah.
A big fish cannot swallow a man whole. Even if it were possible a human could not survive in it's stomach due to the acids it contains.
Finally this special fish the Koran mentions also has a life span till judgement day as Jonah would've remained inside this fish till then had he not repented.

We also have an explanation from early Muslim traditions about this big fish, for which the Arabic word in the Quran is nun.

Here is an explanation from Ibn Kathir a renowned classical scholar taken from Mulslim traditions:

It was said that "Nun" refers to A GREAT WHALE that rides on the currents of the waters of the great ocean AND ON ITS BACK IT CARRIES THE SEVEN EARTHS, as was stated by Imam Abu Jafar Ibn Jarir. Narrated by Ibn Bashar, narrated by Yahya, narrated by Sufyan Al-Thuri, narrated by Sulayman Al-Amash, narrated by Abu Thubian, narrated by Ibn Abbas who related, "The first thing that Allah created was the pen and He said to it ‘Write’. The pen asked, ‘What shall I write?’ Allah said, ‘Write (the) fate (of everything).’ So the pen wrote everything that shall be from that moment until judgement day.

Then Allah created the "Nun" and He caused steam to rise out of which the heavens were created AND THE EARTH WAS THEN LAID FLAT ON THE NUN’S BACK. Then the Nun became nervous and (as a result) the earth began to sway, but (Allah) fastened (the earth) with mountains lest the earth should move ...

This story is confirmed by other early Muslim historians/scholars such as AL TABARI, AL-QURTUBI and TAFSIR IBN ABBAS.


This explains why the author of the Koran thought there was a gigantic fish capable of swallowing a man whole and it also explains how he would've remained inside it till judgement day had he not repented. As it is explained that this big fish will remain alive till judgement day carrying the earth on its back. :eek:

So you didn't comprehend the story which says a big fish swallowed a man and was thrown again while still alive.

It doesn't make sense to you.

I have to assume that you don't believe that God does exist because i don't think that you'll find the truth anywhere because all religions accept miracles as to be a supernatural things,but what you believe in as a disbeliever that things happen without a previous plan and with no need for any kind of design.

Do you find it to be sensible that we become humans as a result of random mutations done on the complex organic molecules in the duration of millions and billions of years of continuing random mutations and the fit ones are naturally selected due to fitness.

To me it looks silly but the disbelievers found it to be easy to be understood by saying we have evidences and scientists told us it can be so.

Your next posts goes in the same direction of discussing the impossibilities such as you mentioned that God says that the mountains have the ability to think and to be a a conscious being.

Don't you think that is the same of what you think that the nature and the unconscious mater has evolved to be a conscious matter.

Your ability to think and to realize that mountains can never have the ability to think should be an enough reason for you to think that God does exist.

The prophet of course knows that mountains aren't conscious and as well as the others in his time know that it is impossible for the mountain to make any kind of decision and the prophet was described as a mad man among other things but he has to pass the words of God as it is.

But just think how silly we are to think that the unconscious nature has did that wonderful universe and the conscious human being as a result of randomness through billions of years.
 
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Pastek

Sunni muslim
There are many problematic passages in the Koran. For example,

The Jews say Ezra is the son of God. (Surah 9)

It doesn't mean all the jews but jews in a specific era. Maybe a sect.

According to Islamic scholar, Ibn Kathir, after questioning how the resurrection will take place on the Day of judgment, God had him brought back to life many years after he died.

He rode on his revived donkey and entered his native place. But the people did not recognize him, nor did his household, except the maid, who was now an old blind woman. He prayed to God to cure her blindness and she could see again. He meets his son who recognized him by a mole between his shoulders and was older than he was.

Ezra then led the people to locate the only surviving copy of Torah as the remaining were burnt by Nebuchadnezzar. It was rotting and crumpled, so Ezra had a new copy of the Torah made which he had previously memorised. He thus renovated the Torah to the Children of Israel. Ibn Kathir mentions that the sign in the phrase "And that We may make of thee a sign unto the people" was that he was younger than his children. After this miracle, Ibn Kathir writes that Jews began to claim that Ezra was the 'son of God'.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uzair#cite_note-19


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uzair

Muslims know that jews are monotheists, so we don't understand that verse as talking about jews in general.

Alexander the Great lived to be old (Surah 18)

Saying that it's Alexander the great is just a supposition. The Quran doesn't mention his name.

The Christian trinity comprises Father, Mother, and Son. (Surah 5)

It's not the trinity. It's christians who take Mary as a divinity, you just confuse the verse with the trinity because it also talks about it.

If this is the word of God, should he not be better informed? And don't tell me there are factual errors in the Bible. The idea that the Bible is the word of God is largely post-Reformation.

We already know that the Bible is not completly the Word of God.
 
So you didn't comprehend the story which says a big fish swallowed a man and was thrown again while still alive.

It doesn't make sense to you.


No because this story has many problems with it as mentioned in my thread, regardless of whether it's a big fish or whale. Including the fact it claims a man could have remained inside a fish till judgement day.

I have to assume that you don't believe that God does exist because i don't think that you'll find the truth anywhere because all religions accept miracles as to be a supernatural things,but what you believe in as a disbeliever that things happen without a previous plan and with no need for any kind of design.

I'm agnostic and have a rational view of things. I accept there may be a God we have no understanding of, just like we don't know everything about the cosmos.

Do you find it to be sensible that we become humans as a result of random mutations done on the complex organic molecules in the duration of millions and billions of years of continuing random mutations and the fit ones are naturally selected due to fitness.

The evidence for evolution is overwhelming, therefore it's a logical explanation.


Your next posts goes in the same direction of discussing the impossibilities such as you mentioned that God says that the mountains have the ability to think and to be a a conscious being.

Don't you think that is the same of what you think that the nature and the unconscious mater has evolved to be a conscious matter.

No.

Your ability to think and to realize that mountains can never have the ability to think should be an enough reason for you to think that God does exist.

The prophet of course knows that mountains aren't conscious and as well as the others in his time know that it is impossible for the mountain to make any kind of decision and the prophet was described as a mad man among other things but he has to pass the words of God as it is.

This is absurd reasoning, but we are discussing the Koran not whether God exists or not. The prophet was considered a mad man for other reasons.
Not because of the absurd stories in the Koran, many of which would've been quite popular during his time as these stories were common in primitive cultures/religions.
In fact, the Koran describes the world just as you would expect a 7th century desert dweller to do so. It contains many popular myths of that time.
Such as solid sky canopy, geocentric universe, seven visible heavens and so on. Though, fear may prevent you from seeing this.



But just think how silly we are to think that the unconscious nature has did that wonderful universe and the conscious human being as a result of randomness through billions of years.

Not silly at all.

Believing a huge unscalable iron wall exists when it doesn't is silly.
Believing an ant can recognize a human and his army is silly.
Believing a rock has intelligence, emotion and can talk is silly.
Believeing a man can remain within a fish/whale till judgement is silly.

But then fear can make one believe in anything.
Fear can paralyse the logical part of the brain. Therefore nothing can be too silly.
Not even a man flying to heaven on his winged horse!
 
<yawn>
What is truly silly - and counterproductive - is this anti-Muslim fixation run amok.​
</yawn>

No highlighting errors in the Koran is productive.
Muslims like to start threads that claim Koran is miraculous, I like to show otherwise.

Maybe you can explain why this huge unscalable iron wall mentioned in the doesn't exist?

That would be productive!
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
No highlighting errors in the Koran is productive.
Muslims like to start threads that claim Koran is miraculous, I like to show otherwise.
Maybe you can explain why this huge unscalable iron wall mentioned in the doesn't exist?
That would be productive!
Considering the flexibility of interpretation, the real problem with the Koran is
that it cannot ever be shown wrong. Of course, the Bible shares this fatal flaw.
 
Considering the flexibility of interpretation, the real problem with the Koran is
that it cannot ever be shown wrong. Of course, the Bible shares this fatal flaw.


I agree to an extent.
It's true Muslims have some wiggle room regarding interpretation but there are some verses which can be prove it to be in error.
As I have mentioned the Koran mentions a wall that cannot and does not exist.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I agree to an extent.
It's true Muslims have some wiggle room regarding interpretation but there are some verses which can be prove it to be in error.
As I have mentioned the Koran mentions a wall that cannot and does not exist.
All errors will be rationalized away though.
Thus, it lacks predictive value.
 

Pastek

Sunni muslim
I agree to an extent.
It's true Muslims have some wiggle room regarding interpretation but there are some verses which can be prove it to be in error.
As I have mentioned the Koran mentions a wall that cannot and does not exist.

Well then the Quran mentions many other things that you can't see either : God, angels, devil, demons and many other things.

How can you proove they don't exist if God say there's things invisible for us (starting with Him) ?

Will you try to proove then to Hindus that their gods are false and don't exist too ? You can't.

You are maybe a person who needs proofs, who needs to see before believing.
There's people who feels and have their own proofs (signs in their life for ex).

What you call "errors" are not seen as errors for us.
At least what said DavidMcCann can be understood as errors, because he didn't take miracles as exemples.

Like i already said, take an other story like Jesus who walk in the water and proove us it's impossible. If you take a miracle as exemple we have a problem then because it can't be explained by science as it's faith.

Open an other thread about other faiths who accept supernatural forces/miracles/unseen and you'll go nowhere too.
 
Well then the Quran mentions many other things that you can't see either : God, angels, devil, demons and many other things.

How can you proove they don't exist if God say there's things invisible for us (starting with Him) ?

Will you try to proove then to Hindus that their gods are false and don't exist too ? You can't.

You are maybe a person who needs proofs, who needs to see before believing.
There's people who feels and have their own proofs (signs in their life for ex).

What you call "errors" are not seen as errors for us.
At least what said DavidMcCann can be understood as errors, because he didn't take miracles as exemples.

Like i already said, take an other story like Jesus who walk in the water and proove us it's impossible. If you take a miracle as exemple we have a problem then because it can't be explained by science as it's faith.

Open an other thread about other faiths who accept supernatural forces/miracles/unseen and you'll go nowhere too.

The Koran doesn't claim this wall is invisible.
The Koran claims this wall is made of metal.
Metal is not invisible.

Your prophet said it was visible and it had been seen:

mam Al-Bukhari transmitted in his Sahih the following Hadith saying: ((A man told the Prophet (Peace be upon him) that he had seen the dam (of Gog and Magog). The Prophet (Peace be upon him) asked: (How did you find it?&#8217; the man said: (I found it like Al-Burd Al-Muhabbar (stripped garments).&#8217; The Prophet (Peace be upon him) said: (You have seen it like that. &#8216;&#8221; In Ibn Jarir&#8217;s exegesis of the Qur&#8217;an, a slight different narration was reported by Qatadah who said: (&#8216;I was told that a man said: (0 Allah&#8217;s Messenger! I have seen the dam of Gog and Magog. &#8216;The Prophet (Peace be upon him) said: (describe it to me. The man said: &#8216;It looked like stripped garments, with red and black stripes.&#8217; The Prophet (Peace be upon him) said: &#8216;You have seen it. &#8216;&#8221;
 
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Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
Yes, a believer is capable of rationalizing anything that conflicts with his/her belief. Regardless of how irrational that may be.
It's a form of delusion.

Congrats?

I'm hoping you realize that everything you just said applies equally to "non-believers" as well. Personally, I'd drop the nasty attitude and claims that some broad classification of people are "delusional" and recognize that all humans are guilty of confirmation bias.
 

Pastek

Sunni muslim
There's people/scholars who don't take the verses about Gog & Magog literaly (i think it's a minority)

Others who believe what you said thinking we can see the wall and it's in the Caucasus.

Others (like me) believe we can't see it/them.

Everyone have a different opinion when it's concern the interpretation of the Quran and hadiths.
I personally believe this hadiths contradict the Quran so i don't believe it.
Also we don't know if those hadiths are classified as weak or no. (but doesn't make a difference as the Quran says otherwise)

I removed the link video because i didn't watch it till the end and it was just more suppositions i disagree with but search for "Gog & Magog barrier Caucasus" and you'll have a certain point of view about those who believe in the existence of a visible barrier/wall.
 
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