Errors in the Quran

[Pastek]

Here is the story once more for those Muslims who can't follow a few simple verses with hadith:

The following verses make it clear that the barrier built by Dhul-Qarnayn prevented this evil community to scale or dig through it.
However, when Gods promise comes to pass (day of judgment) he will turn the wall to dust making the ground level enabling this community to roam free.

What ? You can just read one hadith at a time a take it as a proof without comparing with other hadiths or the Quran itself ?

I have an other one for you :

“The Prophet (peace be upon him) said that Ya’juj and Ma’juj are digging every day until they can almost see sunlight, then the one who is in charge of them says, “Go back, we will dig again tomorrow.” Then Allah restores (the barrier) and makes it stronger than it was. (This will continue) until the appointed time.

When Allah wishes to send them against the people, they will dig until they can almost see sunlight, then the one who is in charge of them will say, “Go back, we will dig again tomorrow, insha’Allah.” This time he will say “insha’Allah”, so when they come back (the next day), they will find it as they left it, so they will dig their way out and emerge to attack the people." (...)

(Ibn Maajah) : Search Results - gog (page 1) - Sunnah.com - Sayings and Teachings of Prophet Muhammad (??? ???? ???? ? ???)

If you want to dig more : Why Gog and Magog are Still a Mystery? - Qur'an & Scriptures - counsels - OnIslam.net

In case you don't know, all the hadiths are not true.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

Lol...I don't believe in the word of the Koran.

You believe in words. So your outlook is no different from the fundamentalist Muslim or Christian or Jew.

Word worshippers. Meh.

 

[Truthisnotyourenemy]

You believe in words. So your outlook is no different from the fundamentalist Muslim or Christian or Jew.

Word worshippers. Meh.

Not the words of the Koran...no way!

 

[Truthisnotyourenemy]

What ? You can just read one hadith at a time a take it as a proof without comparing with other hadiths or the Quran itself ?

I have an other one for you :

“The Prophet (peace be upon him) said that Ya’juj and Ma’juj are digging every day until they can almost see sunlight, then the one who is in charge of them says, “Go back, we will dig again tomorrow.” Then Allah restores (the barrier) and makes it stronger than it was. (This will continue) until the appointed time.

When Allah wishes to send them against the people, they will dig until they can almost see sunlight, then the one who is in charge of them will say, “Go back, we will dig again tomorrow, insha’Allah.” This time he will say “insha’Allah”, so when they come back (the next day), they will find it as they left it, so they will dig their way out and emerge to attack the people." (...)

(Ibn Maajah) : Search Results - gog (page 1) - Sunnah.com - Sayings and Teachings of Prophet Muhammad (??? ???? ???? ? ???)

If you want to dig more : Why Gog and Magog are Still a Mystery? - Qur'an & Scriptures - counsels - OnIslam.net

In case you don't know, all the hadiths are not true.

This contradicts the Koran:

018.097
YUSUFALI: Thus were they made powerless to scale it or to dig through it.

Regardless this hadith doesn't change the implications of the wall whatsoever.

PS my ahadeeth are all sahih, the one I mentioned was Al Bukhari.
Out of interest what is your hadith?

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

Not the words of the Koran...no way!

I'm sure that your Holy Words are the finest words indeed, entirely integrated and without contradiction.

Unlike the Holy Words of those who are not you.

How could it be otherwise.

 

[Truthisnotyourenemy]

I'm sure that your Holy Words are the finest words indeed, entirely integrated and without contradiction.

Unlike the Holy Words of those who are not you.

How could it be otherwise.

The Koran is not Holy sorry!!

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

The Koran is not Holy sorry!!

Yeah. Neither is the Bible. But people have weird beliefs about words. Bibliolatry still infects the human mind.

 

[Breathe]

“The Prophet (peace be upon him) said that Ya’juj and Ma’juj are digging every day until they can almost see sunlight, then the one who is in charge of them says, “Go back, we will dig again tomorrow.” Then Allah restores (the barrier) and makes it stronger than it was. (This will continue) until the appointed time.

When Allah wishes to send them against the people, they will dig until they can almost see sunlight, then the one who is in charge of them will say, “Go back, we will dig again tomorrow, insha’Allah.” This time he will say “insha’Allah”, so when they come back (the next day), they will find it as they left it, so they will dig their way out and emerge to attack the people." (...)

To me, this says that by humbling oneself and putting God's will first means that their efforts to do something are not undone through pride. Those who rely only on themselves will struggle and make little progress and will go in circles, but those who work with God's will in mind will be ever-progressing.

 

[Pastek]

This contradicts the Koran:

018.097
YUSUFALI: Thus were they made powerless to scale it or to dig through it.

Regardless this hadith doesn't change the implications of the wall whatsoever.

For me it's clear, they are emprisoned and many scholars said that. But hey, like i said in my previous post we may have different opinions about some verses. There's also muslims thinking like you that there's a wall. Maybe they will answer in this thread and give you more details if that's what they believe.
I'm not saying that i have better understanding than them but it's my understanding.

PS my ahadeeth are all sahih, the one I mentioned was Al Bukhari.
Out of interest what is your hadith?

I said it in my post, it's Ibn Maajah. I also gave you the link for some of his hadiths concerning Gog and Magog.

To me, this says that by humbling oneself and putting God's will first means that their efforts to do something are not undone through pride. Those who rely only on themselves will struggle and make little progress and will go in circles, but those who work with God's will in mind will be ever-progressing.

That's true it can also means that. There may be many meanings sometimes.

 

[FearGod]

If the wall existed we would know about it.
The prophet agreed it had been seen.

It's a popular legend that existed when the Koran was revealed.
Nothing but a myth.
Denial and wishful thinking won't change this fact.

What difference it makes if such story isn't in the quran.

Those creatures have to appear in the end of time and no one will discover exactly where and when they'll appear on the surface of earth.

This story won't adding any benefit for the prophet at his time specially that he'll never be able to guide them to it's exact location and then it is up to us whether we want to believe it or not.

 

[beenie]

Truth, there are plenty of Muslims who don't take each and every word in the Qur'an literally; rather they accept them as lessons. Yes, there are many who will speak of the miracles God can perform, but you can't simply discount the Muslims who see these stories as "parables" of sorts.

 

[Truthisnotyourenemy]

For me it's clear, they are emprisoned and many scholars said that. But hey, like i said in my previous post we may have different opinions about some verses. There's also muslims thinking like you that there's a wall. Maybe they will answer in this thread and give you more details if that's what they believe.
I'm not saying that i have better understanding than them but it's my understanding.

The text in the Koran makes it clear they are imprisoned by a huge iron.
To claim otherwise is wishful thinking and basically making up your own story.

I said it in my post, it's Ibn Maajah. I also gave you the link for some of his hadiths concerning Gog and Magog.

This hadith doesn't chage the implication that this wall doesn't exist.
This hadith is merely a red herring

That's true it can also means that. There may be many meanings sometimes.

Yes if one is denial they can make up anything as they go along, even if it's in contradiction with the Koran.

 

[Truthisnotyourenemy]

What difference it makes if such story isn't in the quran.

Those creatures have to appear in the end of time and no one will discover exactly where and when they'll appear on the surface of earth.

This story won't adding any benefit for the prophet at his time specially that he'll never be able to guide them to it's exact location and then it is up to us whether we want to believe it or not.

This wall doesn't exist, a huge iron wall like that would be easily found.
It would be one of the most remarkable structures on the planet, even more so than any pyramid.
The Prophet confirmed it had been seen in an authentic hadith.
Your post is just a red herring.

 

[Truthisnotyourenemy]

Truth, there are plenty of Muslims who don't take each and every word in the Qur'an literally; rather they accept them as lessons. Yes, there are many who will speak of the miracles God can perform, but you can't simply discount the Muslims who see these stories as "parables" of sorts.

These muslims are considered heretics, who feel they need to try and rationalise the Koran.

 

[Truthisnotyourenemy]

For those who missed this earlier post

As I've mentioned before The Koran describes the world just as you would expect from a 7th century desert dweller, not from an all knowing God.

One myth that was popular back then was that people believed the sky was a solid canopy like structure.

The ancient world generally believed the sky was solid:

Astonishing as it may seem to the modern mind, with very rare excep-
tions the idea that the sky is not solid is a distinctly modern one. Historical
evidence shows that virtually everyone in the ancient world believed in a
solid firmament.

http://faculty.gordon.edu/hu/bi/Ted_Hil ... nt-WTJ.pdf

People did not realize how far away the heavens really were. It seemed reasonable to them that the sky was a canopy whose edges touched the surface of Earth..

https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/scitech/display.cfm?ST_ID=525

Now does the Koran agree?!

Unsurprisingly yes:

02.22: PICKTHAL: Who hath appointed the earth a resting-place for you, and the sky a canopy;

The above verse is asking its 7th century who has created the sky a canopy.
Note the emphasis is not on their existence but on who created them after all they already believed the sky is a solid canopy.
No one reading the verse back then would have raised an eyebrow that the sky was described as a canopy as this is what they already believed and the Koran only confirms this.

The following verse describes the sky as roof which again is what ancient people believed back then. It also claims such a roof was a sign to them:

021.032
PICKTHAL: And we have made the sky a roof withheld (from them). Yet they turn away from its portents.

So what canopy/roof was a sign to people who already believed in a solid sky?

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

The text in the Koran makes it clear they are imprisoned by a huge iron.
To claim otherwise is wishful thinking and basically making up your own story.

Oh my. You are the authority on Quranic meaning, and it just so happens that your interpretation makes the Quran look nutty.

I do love religion bashers. So entertaining.

 

[Truthisnotyourenemy]

Oh my. You are the authority on Quranic meaning, and it just so happens that your interpretation makes the Quran look nutty.

I do love religion bashers. So entertaining.

Whatever Mr troll....

 

[FearGod]

This wall doesn't exist, a huge iron wall like that would be easily found.
It would be one of the most remarkable structures on the planet, even more so than any pyramid.
The Prophet confirmed it had been seen in an authentic hadith.
Your post is just a red herring.

How did you know it is a huge iron wall ?

 

[Truthisnotyourenemy]

How did you know it is a huge iron wall ?

Firstly the Koranic text:

018.096
YUSUFALI: "Bring me blocks of iron." At length, when he had filled up the space between the two steep mountain-sides, He said, "Blow (with your bellows)" Then, when he had made it (red) as fire, he said: "Bring me, that I may pour over it, molten lead."

It filled the space between the two steep mountain sides, so clearly it must be a substantial wall.

Three different hadiths:

It was mentioned earlier that Dhul-Qarnain has built it out of iron and copper and elevated it to a very high point that is equal to the very lofty mountains. However, there is no on earth an equal building in terms of loftiness or benefiting to mankind.

What is known is that the height of this wall reaches that of the summit of both mountains. It is made with blocks or sheets of iron, which is further strengthened by molten lead.

they tried to penetrate the barrier, or to climb over it, but to no avail. They could not succeed because the barrier is so huge and smooth.

 

[beenie]

These muslims are considered heretics, who feel they need to try and rationalise the Koran.

Heretics according to whom? You? Excuse me while I go have a chuckle.