ESP and Higher Consciousness - not Science.

[nnmartin]

I am a firm believer in The Higher Consciousness of Man and forms of transcendentalism. Science cannot explain this one -

Can anyone shed light on this?

How , for instance do you explain phenomena such as ESP and Group Consciousness?


or to use a more simple example - how does my dog know I'm coming home even when I change my work schedule?

 

[Gjallarhorn]

How do you know your dog knows you are coming home if you don't see him/her until you arrive?

 

[nnmartin]

This was an experiment done with a video recorder.

Let's say every day I return home from work at 5pm. At 4.45 pm the dog gets up and moves to the window to see me arrive in the driveway - he anticipates my arrival as it is the same time every day.

Then one day I change my schedule at random. The next day I arrive home at 3pm but lo and behold, the video camera shows the dog getting up to the window at 2.45pm - he knows that I am coming back soon!

The dog must have some kind of ESP, otherwise how else would he know?

 

[Gjallarhorn]

Animals have heightened senses, but to claim they are psychic...

 

[Alex_G]

I am a firm believer in The Higher Consciousness of Man and forms of transcendentalism. Science cannot explain this one -

Can the atheists and darwinmongers amongst you shed light on this one?

How , for instance do you explain phenomena such as ESP and Group Consciousness?


or to use a more simple example - how does my dog know I'm coming home even when I change my work schedule?

I value the truthful exploration of our world, something science lends itself to very well. Extrasensory perceptions, i would say I’m quite sceptical of such things full stop. And for science to have yielded no good evidence in support of it is not a failure of science, but rather simply that there is no evidence for it. What makes you think these things are correct? What justifies your viewpoint in the face of less than adequate scientific results and to further say it is something science cannot explain, in principle?

The world is complex and we find out new things about it every day, and my mind is open to discovery, as should everyone’s be. But the subtext of your post seems to be harbouring some anit-scientific ethos, referring to ‘Darwin-mongers’ which seems a bit derogatory. I don’t like the whole tribal feel of you sitting on your side, taunting and baiting the other side. Science isn’t against you, it isn’t an enemy. Creativity sits at the heart of new discovery, and so when you feel you have an insight into something, why not investigate it? That’s all science is. What’s left if you don’t is then just a viewpoint.

Edit: OP edited

Alex

 

[Cassiopia]

I am a firm believer in The Higher Consciousness of Man and forms of transcendentalism. Science cannot explain this one -

Can the atheists amongst you shed light on this one?

How , for instance do you explain phenomena such as ESP and Group Consciousness?

Although I am not an atheist I think that there is a good chance that science will one day be able to explain these phenomena.
Quantum mechanics, particle physics, superstring theory and other developments in science have already opened up facts, theories and lines of thought that are in every way magical. The fact for example that some particles can be in two places (or ALL paces) a the same time and that some particles have been shown to travel faster than light have forced scientists to abandon long held beliefs and look for new theories. It is clear that the universe is a much stranger, much more magical place than many people had previously believed.
I believe that science and magic are two sides of the same coin and things like ESP may turn out to be very scientifically explainable.

 

[nnmartin]

I believe that science and magic are two sides of the same coin .

So are you saying that 'magic' is just undiscovered science.

Wouldn't that completely debunk the idea of magic?

 

[A. T. Henderson]

I am a firm believer in The Higher Consciousness of Man and forms of transcendentalism. Science cannot explain this one -

Can anyone shed light on this?

How , for instance do you explain phenomena such as ESP and Group Consciousness?

It isn't that science can't explain these things: it's that science can find no evidence whatsoever that they exist. If there was evidence for their existence, then we'd start dedicating real effort to explaining them.

or to use a more simple example - how does my dog know I'm coming home even when I change my work schedule?

it doesn't. It can, however, hear you approaching your front door.

 

[nnmartin]

^ you have obviously not read the whole thread - the part which explains that the dog knows I'm coming home before approaching the front door even if changing my schedule.

Science is an interesting thing but as soon as anything sounds even vaguely 'supernatural' it hides behind the sofa and discredits it because it cannot be proved - a little lame if you ask me.

 

[A. T. Henderson]

^ you have obviously not read the whole thread - the part which explains that the dog knows I'm coming home before approaching the front door even if changing my schedule.

Yes, I did. It's explained by the fact that either a) he can hear you coming or b) it's sheer coincidence. You remember the times that your dog appeared to to that, and forget about the times when it didn't.

Science is an interesting thing but as soon as anything sounds even vaguely 'supernatural' it hides behind the sofa and discredits it because it cannot be proved - a little lame if you ask me.

Utterly untrue. As soon as anything is presented to scientific scrutiny, it is investigated until all possible avenues of investigation are exhausted. This has been done with supposed ESP, and it has been shown time and time again that there is no evidence that any such thing exists, either in humans or animals.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I am a firm believer in The Higher Consciousness of Man and forms of transcendentalism. Science cannot explain this one -

How would you know?

How , for instance do you explain phenomena such as ESP and Group Consciousness?

or to use a more simple example - how does my dog know I'm coming home even when I change my work schedule?

Perhaps you confusing your dellusion with your dogs perception.

 

[Cassiopia]

So are you saying that 'magic' is just undiscovered science.

Not entirely but partly.

Wouldn't that completely debunk the idea of magic?

No. Why would you think that?

 

[nnmartin]

because I would say that magic is above and beyond physics, the same way that spirituality is.

 

[nnmartin]

Perhaps you confusing your dellusion with your dogs perception.

Glad to see you have come over to this thread.

Time to look at the other end of the scale now.

by the way, do you think that ESP, Consciousness etc.. is favoured by natural selection as well ?- that really would be stretching the theory of evolution somewhat..

 

[nnmartin]

Yes, I did. It's explained by the fact that either a) he can hear you coming or b) it's sheer coincidence. You remember the times that your dog appeared to to that, and forget about the times when it didn't.

It's no coincidence - has been proved with a video camera.

similar to the movie 'Paranormal Activity' - ever seen that one?

The dog can sense its master's approach with a sixth sense, the same way that dogs can sense unknown forces like ghosts etc..They are more perceptive than humans a lot of the time.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

by the way, do you think that ESP, Consciousness etc.. is favoured by natural selection as well ?

You know, nnmartin, my mother use to say that there's no such thing as a stupid question. Of course, she had never been exposed to your drivel -- which, by the way, might be taken by some as telling evidence against directed evolution, not to mention Intelligent Design.

 

[A. T. Henderson]

It's no coincidence - has been proved with a video camera.

similar to the movie 'Paranormal Activity' - ever seen that one?

Yeah. That was complete rubbish too.

The dog can sense its master's approach with a sixth sense, the same way that dogs can sense unknown forces like ghosts etc..They are more perceptive than humans a lot of the time.

No, they can sense their masters approach with a normal sense, that of hearing. They are considerably more perceptive in this respect than any human is, that's true, but there's nothing supernatural about it.

People think their dogs are reacting to "ghosts" when they appear to be responding to something they can't see, but they aren't. They're responding to noises you can't hear. Noises which are entirely non-supernatural in origin.

 

[Cassiopia]

because I would say that magic is above and beyond physics, the same way that spirituality is.

Why?

I practice witchcraft. I do it because it works. If science can explain "how" it works it won't make it any less effective.

As for spirituality, there are many famous scientists who have had strong spiritual beliefs and lead deeply spiritual lives.

I think we need to break down barriers not erect new ones.

 

[Revoltingest]

I practice skepticism because it works.
But experience has shown that formerly loopy ideas can have merit.
I await convincing evidence.

 

[atanu]

I am a firm believer in The Higher Consciousness of Man and forms of transcendentalism. Science cannot explain this one -

Can anyone shed light on this?

How , for instance do you explain phenomena such as ESP and Group Consciousness?
or to use a more simple example - how does my dog know I'm coming home even when I change my work schedule?

I think what is ESP to us is not ESP to dogs or cats --- for them it might simply be natural abilty of their sense apparatus -- smell, sound etc.. Dogs do have extraordinary ability with smell function.

However i have faced two situations that i cannot explain. On two occassions i have faced very tough situation, once related to an health issue and another a work issue. Both times i became so despondent that i cried alone (locking myself in a room) and on both timesoccassions my father phoned me "Are you OK? Your mother asked me to phone you".

I do not know what that is. Chance? May be.

There is another personal experience that is painful. Sometimes i become tense with a recurring thought "Accident... accident...". It is such a vague feeling that nothing proactive can be done to mitigate the thoughts. Inevitably this phase would be followed by news of a disaster, global or personal. Twice my daughter met with accident after i had week long bad vibes. I cannot explain how painful these phases are.

I do believe that individual consciousness and nature's consciousness operate at two levels.