Eternal Hell

[akshar]

The hell of the devil were he beats you up for speaking does not exist, i belive our hell is on earth. Our daily experiences such as pain can be described as hell. Being reborn in a poverty-stricken family can be counted as hell? I think it can.

 

[danielzzr]

I do agree that a just being would not send a person who commited a FINITE amount of hard/wrongdoings to an INfinite ammount of suffering in hell. there are a couple of very interesting ideas on wikipedia,
basically: going to hell means separation from god, and therefore its an infinite sufering in a methaphorical way, as being separated from god will result in eternal sufffering from the soul, etc.

however, this brings us to the same point: is still eternal sufering.

there are other ideas about this, you can look em up on google.. none of the ones i found however makes logical sence to me tho..
a just god that is also supposed to be all benevolent and mercifull will not send any being (even hitler) to hell. he is suposed to forgive.
So, the idea of hell can be thought of as a way of deterring bad things from happening (people will be afraid to go to hell, therefore, they wont sin as much)

 

[Mujahid Mohammed]

Prove that a just God--not necessarily a merciful God, but strictly a just God--can ethically send people to eternal torture, based solely on rational arguments and not recitation from Scripture.

EDIT: If you believe in such a thing.

I am not sure I understand your question. So should people who commit injustices go unpunished? Should the murderer, child molestor and rapist, and social deviant be allowed to run free and do as they like without the responsibility that they will have to answer for their actions. People do it in the criminal justice system they hold people accountable. The same is said for the court of law. The creator has rights over his creation and if you do not fulfill them you may be punished. The same as your father when he cared for you till you were however old tells you to do something and you must abide or punishments may be administered.

I do not think you will argue with that now on the issue of an eternal punishment. Allah tells us if he would have allowed the human being to live forever he would have continued doing wrong and commiting injustices forever. So the punishment if forever according to this. Plus it is a warning. If God told you he would punish you forever if you do this and that and you as an intelligent and logical person continue do it. Is it injustice when he gives the punishment. It was the human being who transgres and are unjust not just to God but themselves in general. God is telling people if you disbelieve in Him and his Messengers any of them you will go to hell fire forever. If you do that who is at fault when He told you. The Creator has all the rights to do as He pleases. He created everything and everything he created is created on rules and principles He created.

If I told my son not to do something and he persisted and I said if you do it I will spank you. And he does it am I committing an injustice. Who has the right to set up the limits my son or me. Likewise for Allah who set up everything in existence He did. So if He created it It is His right. And noone will be wronged they will only wrong themselves.

 

[Wandered Off]

Allah tells us if he would have allowed the human being to live forever he would have continued doing wrong and commiting injustices forever. So the punishment if forever according to this.

I think the trouble here has to do with proportionality. That is, can anything I could possibly accomplish in my maybe 70 years on the planet be bad enough to be burned eternally? Obviously not.

Plus it is a warning. If God told you he would punish you forever if you do this and that and you as an intelligent and logical person continue do it. Is it injustice when he gives the punishment.

It is if his communication is equivocal. As it is, we do not hear from Allah, but from an agent. How do we know this agent speaks for Allah? Conveniently, the agent says so. The trouble is that LOTS of people run around claiming to be agents of God and telling us what God supposedly told them to tell us.

God is telling people if you disbelieve in Him and his Messengers any of them you will go to hell fire forever.

Which would be all good if God didn't allow false messengers to enter the picture.

If I told my son not to do something and he persisted and I said if you do it I will spank you. And he does it am I committing an injustice.

You are if you didn't communicate directly with your son but instead communicated through an agent and allowed others to communicate contradictory instructions through other agents, leaving your son to wonder who really represents you.

 

[Mercy Not Sacrifice]

Wow, now this is a pleasant surprise. So does Islam believe in the concept of eternal hell? I thought that it does advocate the existence of hell, but its duration I do not know about.

 

[Mujahid Mohammed]

I think the trouble here has to do with proportionality. That is, can anything I could possibly accomplish in my maybe 70 years on the planet be bad enough to be burned eternally? Obviously not.

Yes of course, If the one who created you gave you a responsibility in worshipping only Him and you refuse it is well within his right. Plus the punishment is equivocal to the reward of paradise. Now the issue of eternity well this is what he says it is either eternal bliss or eternal hellfire if you choose not to believe.

It is if his communication is equivocal. As it is, we do not hear from Allah, but from an agent. How do we know this agent speaks for Allah? Conveniently, the agent says so. The trouble is that LOTS of people run around claiming to be agents of God and telling us what God supposedly told them to tell us.

True, but everything the Messenger said is the truth which is one of the signs of prophethood. He has many others but this is just an example. There is a beautifull hadith in Bukhari when Abu Sufyan tells a story about when the Emperor of Byzantine called him in his court to ask him about Muhammed. It is long but I am sure you can find it.

Which would be all good if God didn't allow false messengers to enter the picture.

But He gives you the criterion to be able to discern falsehood and truth.
Not to mention the fact it is a test.

You are if you didn't communicate directly with your son but instead communicated through an agent and allowed others to communicate contradictory instructions through other agents, leaving your son to wonder who really represents you.

But unlike many others religions. We have the direct commands from the source. Which has been preserved in the original recitation, with no alteration in the words recited. Anything claiming to be from Allah would be completely free of contradiction this is in the Quran. And it is true, which other relgions cannot say.

 

[Mujahid Mohammed]

Wow, now this is a pleasant surprise. So does Islam believe in the concept of eternal hell? I thought that it does advocate the existence of hell, but its duration I do not know about.

Yes we believe in the eteranal hellfire and paradise. The duration depends on the individual. In Islam the one sin Allah will not forgive is worshipping others along side of or instead of Him, associating others with him, giving divinity to or relying on the creation to answer your prayers. And going realliy against the first commandment in the bible in Exodus. You know it. So if you believe outside of that Hellfire is forever. Now some muslims or those who follow the true religion of Abraham which was Hanifa(worshipping only Allah and Allah alone) may go to hellfire for a time and eventually be released once they have been purified of their sins. I hope this helps.

 

[Mercy Not Sacrifice]

Yes we believe in the eteranal hellfire and paradise. The duration depends on the individual. In Islam the one sin Allah will not forgive is worshipping others along side of or instead of Him, associating others with him, giving divinity to or relying on the creation to answer your prayers. And going realliy against the first commandment in the bible in Exodus. You know it. So if you believe outside of that Hellfire is forever. Now some muslims or those who follow the true religion of Abraham which was Hanifa(worshipping only Allah and Allah alone) may go to hellfire for a time and eventually be released once they have been purified of their sins. I hope this helps.

Wow. OK, so do you think that based on principles of justice that Allah could do this and still be considered to be fair and just?