Eternal Life?

[Valjean]

But are they you, or the atoms of your body? Can you demonstrate consciousness in atoms, btw?

Maybe "you" are the atoms of your body. Consciousness may be just an emergent property of a particular atomic configuration.

 

[Windwalker]

Maybe "you" are the atoms of your body. Consciousness may be just an emergent property of a particular atomic configuration.

Which was why I later pointed out the scientific view of emergentism, to which I was taken to task for talking about a philosophy instead of science (emergentism is a scientific philosophical perspective, just as reductionism is).

Personally, I don't think consciousness is emergent. I think our experience of consciousness, our thinking minds, is where we get confused. We think that consciousness is unique to humans, and call it self-awareness. Rather, I see human consciousness as a particular adaptation of consciousness itself, which is found in all living creatures. That's not to say that a fish 'thinks', in terms of how humans do. But they certainly are aware of themselves and their own environments and make 'decisions' based upon that awareness.

Do rocks and atoms possess consciousness? Not in an easily recognizable way. Panpsychism teaches that it's consciousness all the way down. I think it was Whitehead who termed it as a "prehension". A way that can be viewed would be that consciousness is the underlying fabric of reality itself, and everything is built upon that and includes it. The experience of any form will depend upon its own biological faculties.

Awareness to a tapeworm, is not the same experience of awareness to a much more sophisticated biological organism like a dog, or a tiger. These are simply the sophistication of the lens through which awareness shines. The human brain, or a dolphin's, or an elephant's brain, is a more sophisticated lens. But the brain does not create consciousness. It simply is a portal to it.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

I appreciate this perspective. I wish more Christians embraced this kind of interpretation rather than a literalist one.

Did you ever think that Christians might wish Buddhists had a different interpretation of things? Everyone is entitled to their beliefs and others should not try to change how they think about things.

 

[1213]

Religions speak of the timelessness of the Divine. God is "eternal". In Christian beliefs, believers are promised "eternal life". But what does that mean? It's generally assumed to mean that as one day passes to the next in a linear progression, that this will continue infinitely into the future beyond our mortal deaths, ages and ages, forever passing behind us, and us forever into the future. I would say it's natural for us to think in terms like this, since that is the experience of our daily realities. But is this what eternal means? Forever marching forward creating a linear timeline?

I would make the case that thinking is confused when it comes the the timelessness of the Divine, ....

Bible says:

Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom can be no variation [=change], nor turning shadow.
James 1:17

Time is basically the chain of changes. If no changes, as the Bible says, there is no time.

 

[Valjean]

Which was why I later pointed out the scientific view of emergentism, to which I was taken to task for talking about a philosophy instead of science (emergentism is a scientific philosophical perspective, just as reductionism is).

Personally, I don't think consciousness is emergent. I think our experience of consciousness, our thinking minds, is where we get confused. We think that consciousness is unique to humans, and call it self-awareness. Rather, I see human consciousness as a particular adaptation of consciousness itself, which is found in all living creatures. That's not to say that a fish 'thinks', in terms of how humans do. But they certainly are aware of themselves and their own environments and make 'decisions' based upon that awareness.

I agree consciousness isn't a unique trait and that qualia of anyone but ourselves is a mystery, but this doesn't really address consciousness as emergent. My cat's consciousness may be an emergent quality of her particular neural configuration, as well.

Do rocks and atoms possess consciousness? Not in an easily recognizable way. Panpsychism teaches that it's consciousness all the way down. I think it was Whitehead who termed it as a "prehension". A way that can be viewed would be that consciousness is the underlying fabric of reality itself, and everything is built upon that and includes it. The experience of any form will depend upon its own biological faculties.

Yes, this is the alternative I'm familiar with, a single consciousness permeating the universe, like gravity, with living things "tapping in" like a toaster to the mains, or a radio to a particular frequency. But I don't think this alternative rules out consciousness as a neural artifact, at least at this level of reality.

 

[Valjean]

Did you ever think that Christians might wish Buddhists had a different interpretation of things? Everyone is entitled to their beliefs and others should not try to change how they think about things.

Why not? Are people not interested in being correct?