Eternity Alone

[InChrist]

I was thinking about the idea of being separated from God the Creator forever. The Bible presents two destinations after life of this earth; one being eternal life in heaven and the other the second death or eternal separation from God/heaven. Some of the terms, descriptions, or what this state of separation will be like, are; lake of fire, everlasting fire, furnace of fire, outer darkness.
The scriptures indicate that this place was prepared for the devil and his fallen angels (Matthew 25:41). So it wasn’t for human beings. The scripture state that …

The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is patient toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. 2 Pete 3:9

Yet, the scriptures also reveal that God is love and desires each person to freely choose to respond to His love and eternity with Him because real love cannot be forced.
I really like alone time, but if God is the sole source of love, loving relationships, light, joy, beauty, and all that is good, then I can not imagine an eternity in the absence of God or all that is good and loving; an eternity entirely alone and separate.

Any thoughts?

 

[Alien826]

Would you really be alone though? If Christianity is really the only way to Heaven, Hell would contain the vast majority of (dead) people that have ever lived, no? Atheists, Jews, Muslims, Asian religions, nature religions and so on.

So what's to stop the inhabitants of Hell forming their own society, with whatever amounts of love, joy and so on that they could manage. This would really not be so different from life on Earth for those outside Christianity as it is now. This assumes it is not deliberately made to be unpleasant, which I think you covered.

I'm just pursuing a line of thought following your post, and staying within the parameters of your beliefs as far as I can, not assuming any of this is true.

 

[InChrist]

Would you really be alone though? If Christianity is really the only way to Heaven, Hell would contain the vast majority of (dead) people that have ever lived, no? Atheists, Jews, Muslims, Asian religions, nature religions and so on.

So what's to stop the inhabitants of Hell forming their own society, with whatever amounts of love, joy and so on that they could manage. This would really not be so different from life on Earth for those outside Christianity as it is now. This assumes it is not deliberately made to be unpleasant, which I think you covered.

I'm just pursuing a line of thought following your post, and staying within the parameters of your beliefs as far as I can, not assuming any of this is true.

I think in a place void of God, the Source of love and relationships, then all who are there will be totally alone with only themselves forever. Earth is now blessed with God’s abundance of love, light, goodness, beauty and care in spite of the damage caused by sin. Separation from the source of all these will be nothing but emptiness. That’s my perspective.

 

[Spice]

I think in a place void of God, the Source of love and relationships, then all who are there will be totally alone with only themselves forever. Earth is now blessed with God’s abundance of love, light, goodness, beauty and care in spite of the damage caused by sin. Separation from the source of all these will be nothing but emptiness. That’s my perspective.

I don't believe such a place, one that is void of God, is possible except in the human mind. That's a choice, for "God" IS all.

 

[InChrist]

I don't believe such a place, one that is void of God, is possible except in the human mind. That's a choice, for "God" IS all.

You can certainly believe or not believe whatever you choose. Jesus spoke about eternal punishment, outer darkness, etc. more than anyone in the Bible and gave warnings about avoiding such a place as one’s eternal destiny. I believe Him.

 

[Spice]

You can certainly believe or not believe whatever you choose. Jesus spoke about eternal punishment, outer darkness, etc. more than anyone in the Bible and gave warnings about avoiding such a place as one’s eternal destiny. I believe Him.

So you choose to make that place. OK. I choose not to. My God shall never leave me, nor let me out of his reach.

What John wrote of his dream of Jesus in Revelation can be discerned in so many ways. It's one of the greatest pieces of spiritual literature ever written. And in my mind, no more absolute than the writings of Milton or Dante. All make for great contemplation and prayer, and IMV, that's the only place to find truth.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Any thoughts?

Yes.

It is ignorance of one's true nature that creates this perception of an 'I/other' dichotomy which leads to the fear of the possibility being separate from God.

 

[InChrist]

Yes.

It is ignorance of one's true nature that creates this perception of an 'I/other' dichotomy which leads to the fear of the possibility being separate from God.

Thanks an interesting perspective. It kind of reminds me of Christian Science.

 

[InChrist]

So you choose to make that place. OK. I choose not to. My God shall never leave me, nor let me out of his reach.

What John wrote of his dream of Jesus in Revelation can be discerned in so many ways. It's one of the greatest pieces of spiritual literature ever written. And in my mind, no more absolute than the writings of Milton or Dante. All make for great contemplation and prayer, and IMV, that's the only place to find truth.

Okay, but suppose it is a real place? Not something we choose, but just is, like gravity?

 

[Spice]

Okay, but suppose it is a real place? Not something we choose, but just is, like gravity?

Whatever God feels is necessary for me, I'm content with.

Humankind has shaped and envisioned our Creator in many forms and with many intents. But humankind did not "create" God. God created humankind - and all.
I, like all creation, am His to do with as He chooses.

 

[InChrist]

Whatever God feels is necessary for me, I'm content with.

Humankind has shaped and envisioned our Creator in many forms and with many intents. But humankind did not "create" God. God created humankind - and all.
I, like all creation, am His to do with as He chooses.

That’s a good attitude, I think. Do you think God desires that you acknowledge Jesus as your Savior?

 

[Spice]

That’s a good attitude, I think. Do you think God desires that you acknowledge Jesus as your Savior?

No. I think God is pleased I acknowledge his mission as received.

 

[InChrist]

No. I think God is pleased I acknowledge his mission as received.

Wasn’t God’s mission and plan to send His Son to be the Savior of the world, which would include you and me?


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16

And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son as Savior of the world. Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God. 1 John 4:14-15

 

[Spice]

Wasn’t God’s mission and plan to send His Son to be the Savior of the world, which would include you and me?

Yes, but I believe differently in "how" that comes about.

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16

True, but IMO, it is "believes in his example (The Way) should not perish but have everlasting life."

And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son as Savior of the world. Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God. 1 John 4:14-15

True, but not in the way you and most others see this as true.

I don't follow the Hellenist position pulled from the New Testament and promoted mostly by the interpretation of The Gospel of John and Paul's Epistles. I do, however, often see my belief in these same words:
1 Corinthians 15:
42So is it with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable; what is raised is imperishable. 43It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised in power. 44It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45Thus it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 46But it is not the spiritual that is first but the natural, and then the spiritual. 47The first man was from the earth, a man of dust; the second man is from heaven. 48As was the man of dust, so also are those who are of the dust, and as is the man of heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. 49Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the man of heaven.

I don't believe in trying to sway anyone to my way of thinking. As I said earlier, I believe God comes to us wherever we accept Him. But what I see in the above passage is the first Adam, the first Son of God, being revealed in Jesus as the maker of The Way, and proof all can follow, through rebirth and progression of the unperishable soul, to sanctification and heavenly perfection, to endure to the end, and final resurrection and the return home.

Revelation 1:
5. . .and from Jesus Christ the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of kings on earth.
To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood 6and made us a kingdom [the new Eden], priests to his God and Father, to him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.

I see Jesus as my Savior if and when I can reach that same level of perfection, enduring until the end, and can too, be redeemed by the conquering of the world and achieving final resurrection.

Revelation 3:12
The one who conquers, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God. Never shall he go out of it, and I will write on him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down from my God out of heaven, and my own new name.

So I'm a Universal-Reincarnationist believing all are Sons and Daughters of God and all will be given the opportunity to descend and repeat until sanctification. The parable of the Prodigal Son -- Jesus and Satan. All will rejoice when his job of consequential teaching is complete and he, too, can go home.

All of this is metaphorical, of course, to describe mankind's never ending journey in search of Utopia, since nothing in creation can be destroyed -- only reconfigured.

 

[InChrist]

Yes, but I believe differently in "how" that comes about.

True, but IMO, it is "believes in his example (The Way) should not perish but have everlasting life."

True, but not in the way you and most others see this as true.

I don't follow the Hellenist position pulled from the New Testament and promoted mostly by the interpretation of The Gospel of John and Paul's Epistles. I do, however, often see my belief in these same words:
1 Corinthians 15:
42So is it with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable; what is raised is imperishable. 43It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised in power. 44It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45Thus it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 46But it is not the spiritual that is first but the natural, and then the spiritual. 47The first man was from the earth, a man of dust; the second man is from heaven. 48As was the man of dust, so also are those who are of the dust, and as is the man of heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. 49Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the man of heaven.

I don't believe in trying to sway anyone to my way of thinking. As I said earlier, I believe God comes to us wherever we accept Him. But what I see in the above passage is the first Adam, the first Son of God, being revealed in Jesus as the maker of The Way, and proof all can follow, through rebirth and progression of the unperishable soul, to sanctification and heavenly perfection, to endure to the end, and final resurrection and the return home.

Revelation 1:
5. . .and from Jesus Christ the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of kings on earth.
To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood 6and made us a kingdom [the new Eden], priests to his God and Father, to him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.

I see Jesus as my Savior if and when I can reach that same level of perfection, enduring until the end, and can too, be redeemed by the conquering of the world and achieving final resurrection.

Revelation 3:12
The one who conquers, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God. Never shall he go out of it, and I will write on him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down from my God out of heaven, and my own new name.

So I'm a Universal-Reincarnationist believing all are Sons and Daughters of God and all will be given the opportunity to descend and repeat until sanctification. The parable of the Prodigal Son -- Jesus and Satan. All will rejoice when his job of consequential teaching is complete and he, too, can go home.

All of this is metaphorical, of course, to describe mankind's never ending journey in search of Utopia, since nothing in creation can be destroyed -- only reconfigured.

Thanks for sharing further details about your beliefs.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

I think people who want to find God will not end up without God. As for the rest, they didn’t want to be with God in the first place.

 

[F1fan]

Any thoughts?

Why assume Christian lore is true? None of it applies to anyone who doesn't believe. Did you know no one is in hell? Do you know why? Anyone who believes in hell doesn't think they belong there.

 

[InChrist]

Why assume Christian lore is true? None of it applies to anyone who doesn't believe. Did you know no one is in hell? Do you know why? Anyone who believes in hell doesn't think they belong there.

I don’t think one’s belief in something or not necessarily determines whether it is true. If hell is a literal place in the eternal spiritual realm you wouldn’t know who is there or have information about it, except through revelation from One who does know.

 

[F1fan]

I don’t think one’s belief in something or not necessarily determines whether it is true.

That is why rational minds don't believe in ideas unless there is convincing evidence, and is plausible. Christianity isn't plausible.

If hell is a literal place in the eternal spiritual realm you wouldn’t know who is there or have information about it, except through revelation from One who does know.

Except that 1. it's an absurd idea, 2. that nowhere in the Bible is it stated, 3. if it was a true thing then the God that created it is more of a sociopath than already written about in the Bible.

 

[InChrist]

That is why rational minds don't believe in ideas unless there is convincing evidence, and is plausible. Christianity isn't plausible.

Except that 1. it's an absurd idea, 2. that nowhere in the Bible is it stated, 3. if it was a true thing then the God that created it is more of a sociopath than already written about in the Bible.

I find biblical Christianity extremely plausible and rational. It appears to me that Jesus spoke and warned about hell several times in the Bible.
But, anyway, why would God be a sociopath for allowing people to live separate from Him if they don’t want to live with Him? From my perspective, God would be the opposite since a sociopath is antisocial. God on the other hand created the human race to interact with and to live in loving relationship for eternity. That doesn’t sound very antisocial.
Hell wasn’t even originally for human beings, rather the devil and fallen angels who are intent on destroying humans.