Eucharist levitation miracle assisted by the late Cardinal Jean-Marie Lustiger of Par

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I hear ya loud and clear...

I really do not detect any superimposed images or any trace of computer generated materials on that video...

Usually you can see a clear outline of a computer generated graphic...

I notice details in things that others might not, even the smallest of details.

There are no flaws or imperfections in that video, which can be seen in computer generated films.

There are usually motions that don't add up to real life situations, etc. etc...

And why are you sure that there weren't mechanical special effects?

For example. it would be a simple matter to attach a Host to a jumping toy like this one:

It sits motionless for a while, then pops up an inch or so, then stays motionless... does that sound familiar?

Let's consider three possibilities that I think cover all the possibilities presented so far:

- there was an actual miracle, and the Host really did levitate all on its own.
- the Host physically "levitated", but it was through some sort of trickery.
- the Host did not levitate, but the image of it is somehow not accurate to what happened.

As you've alluded to, the first possibility requires some deception, or at least misdirection, on the part of the celebrants. Why exclude possibility #2, then?

Hopefully, you can see that it would be physically easy to fake the "miracle", so the only reason I can think of to not consider this possibility would be a belief that these fine, upstanding priests would not be willing to deceive the parishoners and viewers... but you've already discounted that idea to allow for possibility #1.

No matter how many mental leaps you had to make to accept this as a miracle, it was always more rational to assume it to be fake.

 

[Ciscokid]

The only way to prove this video is authentic is to find out if the Vatican acknowledged this event as a miracle and documented it.

Would that be enough to convince the skeptics ???

Maybe a few...

No.....the Bible claims many things...man claims many things...that doesn't make them true.

 

[Willamena]

The act of observing a phenomenon is the act of giving particular sensory experiences significance. That changes what one is observing, because the significance or meaning (whatever it may be), is a relational state produced by the observer's interpretive process (i.e. perspective). The mere act of observing changes the "thing" observed by giving it signficance\context. So in part even the act of discerning the cause of a phenomenon as "unknown" is similar to labeling it a "miracle" as the act of merely identifying a collection of sensations as a phenomenon already does that. The "cause," such as it is, in either the case of "miracles" or "scientific explanations" is the same either way - the perception of the phenomenon "creates" the phenomenon and the meaning (the after the fact "cause") is assigned according to the ongoing process of relating things in the observer's perspective.

I agree, as far as I understand such things. Having context/meaning, to me, means it's been stamped and labelled, categorized and filed. And we place faith in the filing system.

And in the context of "miracle," we have faith in the uncause of the phenomenon.

(And this topic on miracles touches on essential divination, too - the existential observer in "a relational state produced by interpretive process," assigning significance to the world around him, everything in multiple contexts. But that's a topic for another day.)

 

[FFH]

And why are you sure that there weren't mechanical special effects?

For example. it would be a simple matter to attach a Host to a jumping toy like this one:

It sits motionless for a while, then pops up an inch or so, then stays motionless... does that sound familiar?

Let's consider three possibilities that I think cover all the possibilities presented so far:

- there was an actual miracle, and the Host really did levitate all on its own.
- the Host physically "levitated", but it was through some sort of trickery.
- the Host did not levitate, but the image of it is somehow not accurate to what happened.

As you've alluded to, the first possibility requires some deception, or at least misdirection, on the part of the celebrants. Why exclude possibility #2, then?

Hopefully, you can see that it would be physically easy to fake the "miracle", so the only reason I can think of to not consider this possibility would be a belief that these fine, upstanding priests would not be willing to deceive the parishoners and viewers... but you've already discounted that idea to allow for possibility #1.

No matter how many mental leaps you had to make to accept this as a miracle, it was always more rational to assume it to be fake.

Great post !!!

The most logical explanation, is your toy theory. It also looks to me as if they (two hosts/eucharists) are mechanically connected and controlled by some mechanism, but the oscillations of the upper host, as it pulls away from the other host, would be hard to duplicate mechanically or by magnetizing the hosts...

Assuming this "miracle" was not computer generated, what could possibly cause the host to pop up and then oscillate ????

I have personally experienced the power of being levitated (held by nothing but the power of God). I know it can be done.

We are so used to cheap tricks that we don't realize that these things can be done by drawing on the powers of God, gods and/or devils...

I believe this is one of those instances where they are drawing on the powers of an unseen force, which I believe is not from God, but from some other source...

We are so comfortable with the natural laws of this world that we forget that there are useen worlds and people all around us in another dimmension that we cannot see who assist us in our every day lives...

I was saved from harm and was gently slowed down and let down by an unseen force, after hurling into the air upside down as I locked up my front brake on my bike at around 30 mph... I related this experience a couple pages back on this thread.

The power to move and manipulate objects and people is real, I've been the recipiant of this unseen power from God...

These bishops/celebrants are using an unseen power from another source, because God is not into this sort of thing, it serves no purpose to glorify him, but only serves to glorify these bishops...

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Assuming this "miracle" was not computer generated, what could possibly cause the host to pop up and then oscillate ????

Any one of many natural explanations:

- a bobbing spring
- some sort of air jet
- balancing on something
- etc.

I have personally experienced the power of being levitated (held by nothing but the power of God). I know it can be done.

We are so used to cheap tricks that we don't realize that these things can be done by drawing on the powers of God, gods and/or devils...

OTOH, it sounds like you're so used to the powers of God, gods and/or devils that you you don't realize that these things can be done by drawing on cheap tricks.

We are so comfortable with the natural laws of this world that we forget that there are useen worlds and people all around us in another dimmension that we cannot see who assist us in our every day lives...

I was saved from harm and was gently slowed down and let down by an unseen force, after hurling into the air upside down as I locked up my front brake on my bike at around 30 mph... I related this experience a couple pages back on this thread.

The power to move and manipulate objects and people is real, I've been the recipiant of this unseen power from God...

When your non-car-owning friend arrives at your front door, it's more reasonable to figure that he got there by taxi than it is to assume that he was carried there by angels... even if you regularly use this divine method of conveyance yourself.

 

[FFH]

There are three explanations.

Cheap trick (those who believe this might be suggesting these priests are deceivers)

Miracle by the power of Satan (those who believe this might also be suggesting these men are deceivers and antichrists, claiming to do this in the name of Christ)

Miracle by the power of God (those who believe this might be suggestinging that there is a divine purpose in this miracle)

Which is it then and what is the purpose of these men to deceive or what is the divine purpose of the miracle ??? Can it glority God ???