Eve more guilty than Adam

[look3467]

Do you think Eve is more guilty than Adam, considering that she was the one to initially sin? It seems to me that this would inherently be the case.

Neither! The marriage between heaven and earth produced a living soul.
Adam the breath of God; Eve the earthen vessel.

The product from the marriage was the creation of a living soul.

In the image of God with ability to know both good and evil.

Every child that is born is born as Adam and Eve, innocent as they until they reach the age of accountability to know good and evil, and in which time, they become as gods.

ref: Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

We all are both Adam and Eve with respect to God.

blessings, AJ

 

[Acim]

Go read from Gen. 2:15 thru Gen 3:12 (perhaps a few more passages after that), and explain to me how anyone other than LORD God is to blame for 'what happened.'

Here is link to NIV online.

Essentially Adam is told don't eat here or you will die. As a reminder, prior to this point in Genesis death is (completely) unknown. After Adam is told this he is put to sleep by LORD God, out comes Eve, and chapter pretty much ends. Next chapter picks up with Eve having dialogue with Serpent and (magically) she has awareness of same forbiddance that Adam has, though this is not explained to reader. Nor do we even know if Adam is awake yet from the sleep that LORD God cause. The Serpent tells the truth. One, they didn't die upon eating fruit (for sure not immediately) and two, their eyes were opened (or plausible interpretation, Adam is awakened from the sleep, but is now dealing with jealous entity desperately exercising sense of control through punishment, nowhere found in Gen. 1).

Adam certainly isn't to blame for eating fruit given to him.
Eve, being from within Adam, is not to blame IMO, since we don't know how she learned the forbiddance.
And most importantly the forbiddance is, how you say, childish as is exposed in Gen. 3:14 and on. LORD God is the creator of original sin and is justifying a version of correction that is deserving of overcoming, but certainly not deserving of worship.

 

[Ninez]

Go read from Gen. 2:15 thru Gen 3:12 (perhaps a few more passages after that), and explain to me how anyone other than LORD God is to blame for 'what happened.'

Here is link to NIV online.

Essentially Adam is told don't eat here or you will die. As a reminder, prior to this point in Genesis death is (completely) unknown. After Adam is told this he is put to sleep by LORD God, out comes Eve, and chapter pretty much ends. Next chapter picks up with Eve having dialogue with Serpent and (magically) she has awareness of same forbiddance that Adam has, though this is not explained to reader. Nor do we even know if Adam is awake yet from the sleep that LORD God cause. The Serpent tells the truth. One, they didn't die upon eating fruit (for sure not immediately) and two, their eyes were opened (or plausible interpretation, Adam is awakened from the sleep, but is now dealing with jealous entity desperately exercising sense of control through punishment, nowhere found in Gen. 1).

Adam certainly isn't to blame for eating fruit given to him.
Eve, being from within Adam, is not to blame IMO, since we don't know how she learned the forbiddance.
And most importantly the forbiddance is, how you say, childish as is exposed in Gen. 3:14 and on. LORD God is the creator of original sin and is justifying a version of correction that is deserving of overcoming, but certainly not deserving of worship.

Eve knew. Genesis 3:2-3

"At this the woman said to the serpent: “Of the fruit of the trees of the garden we may eat. But as for [eating] of the fruit of the tree that is in the middle of the garden, God has said, ‘YOU must not eat from it, no, YOU must not touch it that YOU do not die"

Adam would be even more to blame if Eve hadn't known because as soon as she came to him he should have corrected her.

 

[Katzpur]

Do you think Eve is more guilty than Adam, considering that she was the one to initially sin?

I can't find anywhere in the Bible where it says, "Eve sinned."

 

[Splarnst]

The problem wasn't the tree though. It's going against their creators direct commands...which is what they did.

So, you're changing the framing of the specific thing that went wrong after I already pointed out that the specific thing doesn't matter at all?

I'm sure when he created angels (who existed way before the earth) he had no idea one of them would rebel.

He supposedly created the entire universe, every single particle in it, and custom designed the nature of the angels, yet he had "no idea" they might rebel? Really? For a divine being, you believe in a really dim-witted God.

 

[blackout]

1. I disagree. It was done for them to express their appreciation and their love.

2. Copied from Wikipedia on the definition of entrapment:

Entrapment holds if all three conditions are fulfilled:

1. The idea for committing the crime came from the government agents and not from the person accused of the crime.
2. Government agents then persuaded or talked the person into committing the crime. Simply giving someone the opportunity to commit a crime is not the same as persuading them to commit that crime.
3. The person was not ready and willing to commit the crime before interaction with the government agents.

My thoughts:

1. They were fine before the serpent said anything, so the idea actually came from snake.

2.They weren't persuaded by God, but rather the snake.

3. Again no one knows the exact amount of time after he forbade them to eat from it they disobeyed, but I maintain it wasn't until the serpent said anything they were even remotely interested in it.

Good cop bad cop.
God and his talking snake.

 

[Rakhel]

Adam was more guilty because he is the one that lied.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

1st Timothy 2v14 says Adam was not deceived, but Eve was and came to be in transgression.

 

[Me Myself]

I´ve always thought that the worst thing that was done was blaming God in genesis.

When God asks each what have they done, he stilll hadnt put on any punishment, but after he talks to Adam he gets really mad. What did Adam say to him?

"The woman that you gave me give me this (...)"

Looks like somebody wanted to put the blame on the big guy

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Do you think Eve is more guilty than Adam, considering that she was the one to initially sin? It seems to me that this would inherently be the case.

Romans [5vs12-21] says by one man [Adam] sin entered into the world.

Yes, Eve disobeyed first, but humanly perfect Adam did Not have to go along with Eve or listen to Eve.

If sinless Adam had remained obedient he would not have died.

Eve was deceived. Not Adam. -1st Tim 2v14

 

[Ninez]

So, you're changing the framing of the specific thing that went wrong after I already pointed out that the specific thing doesn't matter at all?

He supposedly created the entire universe, every single particle in it, and custom designed the nature of the angels, yet he had "no idea" they might rebel? Really? For a divine being, you believe in a really dim-witted God.

1. No. If it sounded like I was my apologies.

2. He didn't custom design the nature of the angels. They have free will just like humans do. Also God isn't dimwitted. He just isn't Omniscient like people want to believe. I've given many examples which clearly back my reasoning.

 

[Ninez]

Good cop bad cop.
God and his talking snake.

I don't understand how you can make a correlation between the two. Satan had a motive because he was jealous of the worship God was recieving. What exactly did God have to gain? Oh top of that, why go through all the trouble of getting his first born son Jesus to die to redeem/free mankind from the result of what the first human pair did?

That makes ZERO sense.

 

[.lava]

Do you think Eve is more guilty than Adam, considering that she was the one to initially sin? It seems to me that this would inherently be the case.

i don't think so. seems like she was weak and her weakness was Adam's weakness. finally they were both weak because they were both human. everyone is responsible for his actions. there are many men on earth who commit sin because of other men. same with women. some people see women less than men because of this story and some of them are women haters. men don't like to be weak before women but they are sometimes and they blame women for that. long story short, give it up. leave women alone. i dislike men who blame women for his weakness. as long as one has buttons to be pushed someone would do it, eventually. blaming others is only greed if you ask me

.

 

[Katzpur]

I'm still waiting for somebody to tell me where the Bible says, "Eve sinned."

 

[Splarnst]

He didn't custom design the nature of the angels.

Didn't he create them ex nihilo? You can't get more custom than that.

They have free will just like humans do.

Right, so that means it's entirely foreseeable that they will use their free will do choose something other than what they're expected to. That happened, and now you're saying that God had "no idea" that could happen. That's absurd.

Also God isn't dimwitted. He just isn't Omniscient like people want to believe. I've given many examples which clearly back my reasoning.

The God you're describing, who doesn't even understand that beings with free will actually use that free will to do something "bad," is dumber than a small child. Even children understand that if you put a treat in front of a dog and tell them not to eat it, that they just might eat it!

 

[Splarnst]

I'm still waiting for somebody to tell me where the Bible says, "Eve sinned."

Is there a reason you're looking for that exact phrase? I mean, are you suggesting that it shouldn't be called that, or that she didn't commit any transgression at all? She did get kicked out of the Garden of Eden along with Adam and cursed with painful childbirth, punishment which is good evidence that God thought she did something wrong.

 

[Katzpur]

Is there a reason you're looking for that exact phrase? I mean, are you suggesting that it shouldn't be called that, or that she didn't commit any transgression at all?

Yes, my reason is that the OP asked, "Do you think Eve is more guilty than Adam, considering that she was the one to initially sin?" Since the assumption is that Eve sinned, I think it's not unreasonable to want to know where the Bible tells us she sinned. I don't believe Eve actually "sinned" because I believe that sin is the intentional choice to violate a religious law or moral principle. I believe that it's impossible to sin without a knowledge of good and evil, or right and wrong. Adam and Eve both disobeyed God, but I don't believe that it's accurate to describe their disobedience as "sinful." Once they ate the forbidden fruit and came to understand the difference between good and evil, then any further wrongdoings would, in my opinion, be considered sinful.

She did get kicked out of the Garden of Eden along with Adam and cursed with painful childbirth, punishment which is good evidence that God thought she did something wrong.

Yes, she did something "wrong," and she knew before she ever did so that there would be consequences for her disobedience. But I believe that the Fall was a necessary part of God's plan. Members of my Church actually hold both Adam and Eve in pretty high esteem.

 

[Acim]

Eve knew. Genesis 3:2-3

"At this the woman said to the serpent: “Of the fruit of the trees of the garden we may eat. But as for [eating] of the fruit of the tree that is in the middle of the garden, God has said, ‘YOU must not eat from it, no, YOU must not touch it that YOU do not die"

We don't know how she knows, nor do we know if Adam is awake yet. 2 points I made earlier.

I realize assumptions can be made to cover both these points, but given how absolutely critical it is that Adam was put to sleep and for what purpose, I think the assumptions are giving enormous benefit of doubt to what is actually being stated.

Sorry, my patience for trying to understand LORD God is extremely low given how much of a bully baby this entity turns out to be. As I said, not even a little bit worthy of devotion or worship.

Adam would be even more to blame if Eve hadn't known because as soon as she came to him he should have corrected her.

How would Adam know which fruit he was being given?

 

[Pegg]

Do you think Eve is more guilty than Adam, considering that she was the one to initially sin? It seems to me that this would inherently be the case.

they are both guilty of the same crime, however, the bible says that one was decieved while the other was not decieved.

Now, if someone commits a crime willfully and pre-meditately so, that person is legally more culpable then a person who commits the same crime without knowledge of it or because they were tricked into committing the crime.

For this reason, Adam is more guilty:
1Timothy 2:14 Also, Adam was not deceived, but the woman was thoroughly deceived and came to be in transgression
This means he knew exactly what he was doing whereas Eve was unaware of her transgression.

 

[.lava]

they are both guilty of the same crime, however, the bible says that one was decieved while the other was not decieved.

Now, if someone commits a crime willfully and pre-meditately so, that person is legally more culpable then a person who commits the same crime without knowledge of it or because they were tricked into committing the crime.

For this reason, Adam is more guilty:
1Timothy 2:14 Also, Adam was not deceived, but the woman was thoroughly deceived and came to be in transgression
This means he knew exactly what he was doing whereas Eve was unaware of her transgression.

that's a very interesting point of view. so Adam betrayaled God knowingly but Eve didn't. then why both had to leave heaven?

.