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Even Republicans are beginning to notice Trump's dementia.

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
What worries me is what that conclusion will look like. I doubt Biden will be able to convince Un's own people to overthrow him.
Already that monument for reunification in North Korea has been taken down by Kimmy and the 'cold war' between these countries is really ramping up to the point where some experts are saying Kimmy already has made a decision to go to war at some point.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
It seems to be some sort of sport for them. No other reason to come to a religious forum to do that. They clearly have no interest in anything other than arguing (and not in good faith).
Yeah it's just an observation based on my experiences and you seem to be going to the same thing that I've been going through.

It doesn't really affect me a whole lot , but it does get a little tiresome because it's not addressing the subject but instead it's just continuous personal commentary and personal attacks which it's probably good for the drama for those viewing the exchanges while eating popcorn, but gets kind of boring after awhile for those who just want the subject to progress or end , whichever comes first.
 

Laniakea

Not of this world
Already that monument for reunification in North Korea has been taken down by Kimmy and the 'cold war' between these countries is really ramping up to the point where some experts are saying Kimmy already has made a decision to go to war at some point.
It's hard to imagine it not going nuclear.
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
I've discovered through many interactions with one of your liberal counterparts that it's best to get words defined in advance. Otherwise, they get defined with new definitions that only benefit the questioner after the answer has been given.
Just answer the question: if Trump loses and tells you supporters to attack the USA (like government buildings, officials, law enforcement) would you do it?

Show some guts and give us a yes or no answer.
 

Laniakea

Not of this world
Just answer the question: if Trump loses and tells you supporters to attack the USA (like government buildings, officials, law enforcement) would you do it?

Show some guts and give us a yes or no answer.
Oh man! I've been sitting here waiting so long for you to reply, and i thought you were using all this time 2 give me well thought out definitions of the words I asked you about so I could give you an answer that would satisfy us both.
However, it appears to have been a waste of time, as usual.
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
Oh man! I've been sitting here waiting so long for you to reply, and i thought you were using all this time 2 give me well thought out definitions of the words I asked you about so I could give you an answer that would satisfy us both.
However, it appears to have been a waste of time, as usual.
So not all that dedicated to Trump after all. Good.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
It's hard to imagine it not going nuclear.
Yeah you would think it would be Russia, China, or some other large major country where you think major wars will occur,

I think the next major war will come out with little despots like Kimmy boy playing around with his plutonium.

The scary part is he's actually advancing and improving his military which is should be a big red flag to immediately put a stop to it while one still can before he launches nuclear ordinance that will certainly end his regime.

We invaded Iraq for less and it's mind-boggling we haven't put an end to the Korean War because technically it's still ongoing , it never ended, and I don't think we need congressional approval to finish it either.

But that's just my thoughts on it.
 

Laniakea

Not of this world
So not all that dedicated to Trump after all. Good.
See? If I don't give you an answer before words are properly defined, then you invent an answer and put words in my mouth.
Let me know when you're ready for honest debate.
 

Laniakea

Not of this world
Yeah you would think it would be Russia, China, or some other large major country where you think major wars will occur,

I think the next major war will come out with little despots like Kimmy boy playing around with his plutonium.

The scary part is he's actually advancing and improving his military which is should be a big red flag to immediately put a stop to it while one still can before he launches nuclear ordinance that will certainly end his regime.

We invaded Iraq for less and it's mind-boggling we haven't put an end to the Korean War because technically it's still ongoing , it never ended, and I don't think we need congressional approval to finish it either.

But that's just my thoughts on it.
What amazes me is that even though Kim has proven the technology he has by detonating nuclear weapons underground, and then developing rocket technology to where they can put a spy satellite in orbit, people are still quick to trivialize what North Korea could do to places, including the United states, if they decided to go to war. They still say stupid things like, "NK can't even get a rocket off the ground!"
 

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
And how many times did Kim Jong Un threaten his neighbors with nukes? How many times did Putin invade another country? Under Trump, it never happened. Under Joe Bite me and ViceHey president Camel Hair, it hasn't stopped happening.
Hey wow, Trump didn't invade Ukraine! Well, we'll have to forgive him for the attack on the Capitol, the lies about valuations, about the election ─ about everything really ─ , the attempts to corrupt public officials, the refusals to take responsibility for his crimes, the childishness and narcissism, the bullying and threatening, the whoring.

Didn't invade Ukraine, you're right ─ how could I have forgotten so quickly?


Oh wait ─ didn't Biden not invade Ukraine too?
 

Laniakea

Not of this world
Hey wow, Trump didn't invade Ukraine! Well, we'll have to forgive him for the attack on the Capitol, the lies about valuations, about the election ─ about everything really ─ , the attempts to corrupt public officials, the refusals to take responsibility for his crimes, the childishness and narcissism, the bullying and threatening, the whoring.

Didn't invade Ukraine, you're right ─ how could I have forgotten so quickly?


Oh wait ─ didn't Biden not invade Ukraine too?
Sorry, I forgot what type of person I was attempting to have a discussion with.
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Just answer the question: if Trump loses and tells you supporters to attack the USA (like government buildings, officials, law enforcement) would you do it? Show some guts and give us a yes or no answer.
I find that when I'm dealing with a poster who refuses to answer a question, the best course of action after one or two posts like that one that make the evasion or deflection explicit is to simply answer the question for him according to your best understanding of what it is he is likely hiding, offer him a chance to make any corrections if he wants any input into the matter, and move on. In this case, the likeliest possibility for why he refuses to answer is that he would commit violence against his neighbors at Trump's behest, or at a minimum, the possibility is not off the table for him, and he understands how that would be received and prefers to not hear it. What else is reasonably accounts for that choice?

@Laniakea - if that's incorrect, feel free to make any additions, deletions, or other rewording that make that comment correct if you care to have any input.
Define "attack".
Define "America".
Define "define."

You're vamping amigo. If you had any interest in answering, you would have expressed any limits you had - what you would require to commit crimes against the Constitution or state. For example, if Trump implied that he wanted an individual targeted (stochastic terrorism), would you help have them SWATted? Would you invade the Capitol if asked to, say after a second Biden victory over Trump? I don't expect answers from you, which is why I gave what I considered your likely answers and your likely reasons for concealing them.

I say that like most MAGA, the idea gives you some misgivings, but only for your safety, not for the welfare of the nation, and that if Trump ascended to power again, you would feel safe from consequences. You could go either way regarding participation yourself, but you would support those that choose to do Trump's bidding if you declined to take part.

If you find any of those words wrong or offensive, my apologies, and once again you are invited to modify any or all of that if you choose.

And if it's correct, why deny it? You're free to have that attitude and choose that path, and immune from any consequences for giving a candid reply apart from rebukes from powerless strangers.
It seems to be some sort of sport for them.
Yes, it is, although pastime is probably a better word than sport or even game, since it's not really a competition. Critical thinkers enjoy honing their critical thinking skills, and this is an excellent opportunity for that. And since religious, conservative, and unskilled in critical thought cluster in the same individuals, and humanistic values and methods in those leaning toward liberalism and irreligiosity, you get these debates in science (evolution vs creationism) and philosophy (empiricism vs faith, free will vs illusion).

Also, those educated in the sciences and other academic pursuits like to correct the errors others less interested in scientific accuracy make as a public service to those who care about getting it right.
it's not addressing the subject but instead it's just continuous personal commentary
Perhaps the replies you get don't satisfy your expectations and maybe liberal thought in general simply offends you, but why is that anybody else's concern? If you're referring to personal commentary about Trump, of course you're not going to like what you read from the contingent that finds the man morally reprehensible. Look at the material they have to comment on - Trump's torts and crimes, his personality, his ignorance, his mouth, his nonstop raging, his authoritarian tendencies, his lust for power and revenge, his constant lying, and his now rapidly progressing cognitive decline.

If seeing people who detest that man cheer his demise upsets you, it's going to be an unpleasant ride for you as well, and I'd ask you the same question I asked the other poster. Why are you rooting for this man? His is one of two fates if he lives long enough: prison or a capture of the government, which means winning reelection and then dismantling the apparatus holding him accountable and harming his enemies. Are you rooting for the latter? If not, why are you happy they're putting him away for good? If so, why? Do you hate perceived enemies like the libs, the Deep State, illegal immigrants, BLM, and antifa so much that you would root to unleash the Kraken?
 

Sargonski

Well-Known Member
Four years of disaster? You do not seem to follow the news at all.

You OK Sub D ? Did you not notice the failed withdrawl from Afghanistan .. the failed war in Ukraine .. and now Genocide Joe got the USA complicit in War crimes which is Biden's specialty going back to the Obama years.

Then you have Biden's debt disaster .. to be fair Trump was a princess with a credit card .. taking 4 Trillion onto the debt in 4 years. That however is nothing compared to Biden who has already added 10 Trillion to the debt .. and he has 9 months left to go .

Do you not follow the news at all friend ? Did you not hear about using the Economic Nuclear Option -- a huge Blunder which accellerated the downfall of the US economic empire into the abyss.

I suppose we should not say four (4) years of disaster since Biden has yet to complete 4 years .. worry not however .. the last bit of Biden's term is also turning out to be a disaster .. Biden will go down in history as "Genocide Joe" - no ability to control or put a leash on our Dog in the Middle East. You do not seem to follow the news at all .. ?!
 

Sargonski

Well-Known Member
Look at you -- extolling Trump and excoriating Biden. Yet, what's happened recently? There's a Senate bill on immigration being crafted, and Biden has already given notice that he is ONSIDE. It's what everybody wants, so a bipartisan team in the Senate and the Oval Office are trying to make it happen.

And then, O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!, Trump wants it quashed! Why? So that he can pretend that Biden doesn't want it and he'll get elected! This is viciously vile, in a way that even you should be able to understand. But you can't, can you, because it plays against your personal biases.

Please .. spare me the partisan bickerfest and strawman Fallacy - I am talking the Biden Disaster .. and while I did not mention that Immigration .. that has been a disaster , you were the one that brought it up - in the 4th year of Biden's term the Blue cancel Crew has finally figured out that their immigration policy has been a huge Disaster. This has nothing to do with what I think at all and everything to do with the fact that Blue's immigration policy and position has been a huge disaster - by their own admission - and what Trump thinks is irrelevant and he has no ability to quash the Biden Pork bill in any case.

How is this my personal bias - a bunch of purile nonsense on your part. In addition .. you make up nonsensical fantasy and attribute it to me claiming I was extolling Trump. Post from my short post where I extolled Trump or apoligise for this nasty strawman fallacy.
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
You OK Sub D ? Did you not notice the failed withdrawl from Afghanistan ..
No doubt a flawed withdrawl from Trump's date to leave to the military pulling out troops to levels that could not control the environment.
the failed war in Ukraine ..
Oh, you mean the war that Russia failed to win in a few months, and that Ukraine is pushing Russia back? It has been a stalemate over winter which isn't unusual. But MAGAs in congress want to end aid for Ukraine. Is that to hurt Ukraine by hurting Biden?
and now Genocide Joe got the USA complicit in War crimes which is Biden's specialty going back to the Obama years.
As if Biden is the prime minister of Israel. The USA gives aid to Israel as a foreign policy standard. The additional aid has been conditioned with requests that Israel use moral tactics. Israel has refused, and even rebuked a UN directive. It's a no win situation between Hamas and Israel, and I hope Biden refuses more aid until there's a cease fire.
Then you have Biden's debt disaster .. to be fair Trump was a princess with a credit card .. taking 4 Trillion onto the debt in 4 years. That however is nothing compared to Biden who has already added 10 Trillion to the debt .. and he has 9 months left to go .
And a booming economy, which was Trump/republicans whole strategy when they passed the 2017 tax cuts. They claimed there would be added revenue from the improved economy. So are you saying this Trump/republican strategy failed, and Biden should raise taxes so we can raise revenue? It doesn't happen by magic.
Do you not follow the news at all friend ? Did you not hear about using the Economic Nuclear Option -- a huge Blunder which accellerated the downfall of the US economic empire into the abyss.
Typical right wing scare tactics.
I suppose we should not say four (4) years of disaster since Biden has yet to complete 4 years .. worry not however .. the last bit of Biden's term is also turning out to be a disaster .. Biden will go down in history as "Genocide Joe" - no ability to control or put a leash on our Dog in the Middle East. You do not seem to follow the news at all .. ?!
So far you have cited false items as your "disasterous" Biden presidency. Don't you have any truthful data or facts?
 

Sargonski

Well-Known Member
I don't think we have "proof" of even that, but none is needed. None was needed to find for the plaintiff twice now, just a preponderance of evidence.

The groping as you called it was obscene (and illegal though he was and likely never will be criminally charged for it). Trump is obscene; repugnant even to his wife. The judgment was just. Whatever it takes to shut the man up is justified. If he does it again, the punitive damages need to be increased to several hundred million dollars next time.

Compensatory damages depend on what the victim has suffered and what that's worth independent of the defendant's ability to pay, but punitive damages are based in what a person can afford to pay.

You make some good comments "Don't have proof" "None was needed" "Just a preponderance of Evidence" - but don't seem to understand the significance of what you have just said.

This whole business of going after someone civily when they have been found "Not Guilty" as a big anathema to principles of Justice - the rule of Law, 1) Innocent until proven guilty - 2) Punishment must fit the crime

Was OJ not the first time they allowed something like this ? -- in any case If he is found not guilty of the crime .. there is no punishment .. because there is no crime to fit.

Look -- we all "Think" Trump did it .. including every juror who are all tainted on that basis alone.. so when the judge is giving that Jury Instructions .. on how to decide .. telling them >> Its not what you can prove .. but what you think is likely .. we have entered the land of arbitrary ..

The Colorado clown show .. punished Trump on the basis completely arbitrary lack of due process bars.. what does "what likely happened mean" ??? declared Trump Guilty of Insurrection (not criminally guilty) .. and levied punishment on that basis.

Hold on here .. reverse the tape either you are guilty of the crime .. or you are not. to say one is not guilty on a criminal basis .. and therefore no crime = no punishment but guilty on a civil basis .. and punished for the Crime that he is not guilty of .. on that basis.

Do you understand the problem of arbitrary in Law ? Probably not as you have a botched perspect of compensitory and punative damages.

Compensation for Loss - No problem .. quantification of the loss can be calculated reasonably - Johnny Depp for example suffered huge loss from the Amber heard defamation of his good name .. .. The Blue Judge in the Trump -Caroll affair giving jury instructions "The woman must be believed' no doubt .. or some variation on that Woke Joke ideology. How much is Caroll's loss ? How much is the loss of the trailer park election workers awarded 140 million in the Gulianni case. Please provide a rational .. non arbitrary calculation of that one ? .. somewhere in the brain at least a few canaries in the Kangaroo coal mine should be screeching out. How do you make equal justice under the law work in this scenario .. ?

"Punative Damages" - Do you have the faintest idea of that "Punative Damages" means ... outside a dictionary definition and in context ?

No ? Welcome to the Club .. as I have no idea how to do that calculation either .. and neither does anyone else .. because it is anything the Judge is going to make up .. obviously .. as in the case of Guilianni.

Did you wish to try to come up with some legally legitimate quantification and calculation ? Sure the person can pay .. which comes into consderation .. but how much must be dependent on the damages to the Plantiff .. which brings us full circle to "punishment must fit the crime" "Defamation" being the big crime in this case .. not "Grabbing her by the Punani" .. of which Trump must be assumed to be not guilty. but .. even though he not guilty .. we going to punish him anyway .. on the basis of some arbitrary legal bar .. and arbitrary punishment criteria.

These raging anathama's to the rule of Law .. on numerous accounts "innocent until proven guilty" - "Punishment fit Crime" - "Equal Justice" is not the mark of a functional Justice system .. something is broke. How it broke .. how our system has slid down the slippery slope into fallacious Utilitarian Abyss - is a story for another day.
 

Sargonski

Well-Known Member
Let me know if you have anything you'd like to add to it.

I personally align with Trump's anti War "morally bankrupt" values .. take him over Genocide Joe on that basis any day. Used to be Blue was the the Pro ACLU - Free Speech - Anti war monger party. The New Woke Progressive Cancel Crew NWPCC -- is the new Neocon .. anti free speech - pro censorship club .. Go after those whistle-blowers who out Gov't Crimes .. and other morally bankrupt values.
 
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Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
You OK Sub D ? Did you not notice the failed withdrawl from Afghanistan .. the failed war in Ukraine .. and now Genocide Joe got the USA complicit in War crimes which is Biden's specialty going back to the Obama years.

You mean the failed plan of withdrawal of Trump. There really was no time to make a new one. If Biden did then we might be there forever. He did the hard job of seeing it through. Trump was too much of a coward to do that. The war in Ukraine? Oh yeah, that would have been no problem under Trump since he would not have made a peep. Trump would have said "anything is fine with me as long as we aren't invovled."
Then you have Biden's debt disaster .. to be fair Trump was a princess with a credit card .. taking 4 Trillion onto the debt in 4 years. That however is nothing compared to Biden who has already added 10 Trillion to the debt .. and he has 9 months left to go .

Are you kidding me? Biden had a good reason for his debt, and this was started by Trump, but it was not Trump's fault. You see, there was this little thing called the pandemic. Trump started the extreme spending, in fact his deficit was greater than Biden's ever was, but I do not blame him for that. It had to be done. Biden merely continued it. I do not blame either one for that. Right now I am positive that the deficit has been shrinking by huge amounts now that the pandemic is over and the economy is going gang busters. I am surprised at how extreme your ignorance is. But let's go back further. Obama took over from Bush during the worst recession for over forty years. I do not blame Bush all that much for that recession, he was part of the problem but both parties contributed to that for years. Still once the recession happened that had to be dealt with. And Obama took over during the worst of it. He had to spend excessively too, but guess what he did once the recession was over? He started to cut the deficit and that went down throughout his Presidency. So what happened when Trump took over? Trump was a disaster waiting to happen, he keep increasing the deficit FOR NO GOOD REASON WHATSOEVER! Sorry, I rarely yell. But the increasing deficit under Trump showed that he was just a wasteful spender and was going to put us back into a recession sooner or later. He was lucky in a way that the pandemic came because he could blame the fall of the economy on that where sooner or later, and probably after the left the office for good, the economy was doomed to fail if he had continued at the helm. If you do not trust me then find any reliable source that gives the US deficit for the last 20 years:
1706459967488.png


That is is from a conservative source. I love to use conservative sources that show Trumpistas are wrong. Please note that it is post Covid.
Do you not follow the news at all friend ? Did you not hear about using the Economic Nuclear Option -- a huge Blunder which accellerated the downfall of the US economic empire into the abyss.

I already showed that I did so better than you do. Let's see a reliable source for this claim of yours.
I suppose we should not say four (4) years of disaster since Biden has yet to complete 4 years .. worry not however .. the last bit of Biden's term is also turning out to be a disaster .. Biden will go down in history as "Genocide Joe" - no ability to control or put a leash on our Dog in the Middle East. You do not seem to follow the news at all .. ?!
What four years of disaster? Once again. like Obama, he was handed an economy that was terribly hampered by world events. I do not blame Trump for the virus at all, but his handling of it was not ideal. He should have trusted his experts a bit more an learned how to keep his mouth shut. Ironically he only harmed future Republican aspirations since the reluctance to take the vaccine was largely due to his incompetence and strong Republican areas had higher death rates even when one took age into consideration.

The economy is complicated. You cannot just look at the band hand a President is dealt with when he enters into office. One has to look at how he handled it. We could still use some more spending cuts perhaps, or rather spending reprioritization. We still need to spend massive amounts on infrastructure.

Try to show me with reliable sources that Biden has ruined the economy, which is now doing far better than it ever did under Trump.
 

Sargonski

Well-Known Member
Oh, you mean the war that Russia failed to win in a few months, and that Ukraine is pushing Russia back? It has been a stalemate over winter which isn't unusual. But MAGAs in congress want to end aid for Ukraine. Is that to hurt Ukraine by hurting Biden?

As if Biden is the prime minister of Israel. The USA gives aid to Israel as a foreign policy standard. The additional aid has been conditioned with requests that Israel use moral tactics. Israel has refused, and even rebuked a UN directive. It's a no win situation between Hamas and Israel, and I hope Biden refuses more aid until there's a cease fire.

ypical right wing scare tactics.

So far you have cited false items as your "disasterous" Biden presidency. Don't you have any truthful data or facts?
Who is the one lacking in truthfull data or facts ? By all acounts the pullout of Afghanistan was a disaster .. crying out that Trump would have done something different does not change that truth ?

That you don't know the Ukraine war is a disaster is likely a function of ingested propaganda or simple lack of knowledge on your part .. not any lack of Truth on mine. Russia has annexed/occupied territory from Ukraine .. terroritory which represents a significant portion of Ukraines GDP. Bidens JV Team was supposed to take back the annexed territory .. or at least some of it in the much vaunted "Counter Offensive" which ended up with Ukraine destroying army after reconstituted army .. but failing to breach the first line of Russian Defense. Now Ukraine is running short on ammo and short on human capital .. pressing women and old men into service who don't want to be there.

and last .. the apology For Genocide Joe's failure to get tough with the Bibi and declaring himself a Zionist is touching .. but Gaza is yet another Biden disaster of EPIC proportions. Not that USA had much moral authority to begin with but, this is damaging.
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
even though he not guilty
Sorry that you disapprove of how the legal system decides matter to mete out justice, but yours is not the only opinion, and not the one that decided or will decide how these matters are determined. I find the process just, and I trust my intuition there.

On a related note, I saw your dig at what you called cancel culture. I approve of that as well, but only in the hands of decent people cancelling outrageous people. Trump is being cancelled at every level, and I whole-heartedly approve. When it's MAGA trying to cancel books or fishing for reasons to impeach Biden, then not so much.

If you want to make a correction to the justice process, one needs to stop the clock onthe statute of limitations when a person is protected from prosecution while he is president, and remove the power of the pardon from the president except post-humous pardons.
"Punative Damages" - Do you have the faintest idea of that "Punative Damages" means ... outside a dictionary definition and in context ? No ? Welcome to the Club
I'm not in your club. I understand what punitive damages are quite well. It's a very simple concept. I explained it to you.
I have no idea how to do that calculation either
You try to find a number that modifies future behavior. The first award of $5 million was approximately $2 million in compensatory damages and $3 million in punitive damages, and had no effect on Trump's subsequent behavior. The $83 million second judgement was about $18 million compensatory and $65 million punitive. I

It's obvious why the punitive damages had to go up. They were ineffective at $3 million and were increased over 20-fold. Let's see if that works. So far, it seems to be, but, if necessary, the next punitive judgment will need to be increased by an order of magnitude more to a sizeable fraction of a billion dollars.

It's less clear why the compensatory damages increased ninefold. Maybe her attorney fees were higher this time. Or maybe the psychological damage inflicted following the first verdict was seen as greater, although I don't see how. I would have been elated to hear him run his mouth again after the matter of sexual predation had already been adjudicated in her favor. Kaching! But I'm not her and don't know what extra harm Trump did to her since the first judgment.
"punishment must fit the crime"
You are offended by the size of the judgments against the likes of Giuliani, Trump, A Jones, and Fox News. I consider them just. Lesser amounts would be ineffective as disincentives to people of great means.

Speaking of silencing Trump beside judges with gag orders and juries with punitive damages, Trump cancelled a speaking engagement in Arizona last week, and it was (not credibly) attributed to this (non)scandal peripherally involving Kari Lake: 'Betrayal': Arizona GOP chair resigns after recording of 'offer' to Kari Lake

But there is credible speculation that Trump's handlers won't be letting him speak publicly if they can stop him, as every blunder reactivates the dementia meme. His last major blunder was confusing Pelosi and Haley, which helped established the declining cognitive status meme in the culture such that Fox News conceded it, but as you can see, that conversation has died down since Trump has been silenced publicly. For how long can they keep referring to that error or replaying the clip? So Team Trump might be trying to prevent further comments like that, which means silencing him as completely as possible.
Gaza is yet another Biden disaster of EPIC proportions.
Disagree. Once again, you don't set these standards except for yourself.

It's a disaster for Israelis and Palestinians, one created by them and one which degrades their lives - not a Biden or America disaster. For American and most other non-Israeli NATO members citizens, it's threat and concern, and a cause for empathy, but doesn't directly affect most Americans.

Likewise with the Ukrainian war and the withdrawal from Afghanistan. These don't affect the daily life of most Americans, most of whom remain blissfully unaware of just about everything in their world beyond any trouble they might be having making ends meet. And they're right. What matters to typical Americans are destination weddings, clubbing, and designer sports shoes if younger, or braces, 401ks, and college funds if older, and the cost of gasoline and financing homes and cars for both - not foreign wars. You can probably add extreme weather to that list soon if not already, as it seems to be degrading ever more lives ever more intensely every year.
 
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