? Everyone is Equal ?

[Breathe]

God claims 'everyone is equal' but yet people who are gay, lesbian, bisexual is suddenly NOT equal.

According to whose God? Not mine.

suddenly they are different and should go to hell.

How does 1) they are different lead to 2) they should go to hell?
And certainly not my God-concept.
Not everyone believes in Hell.

these people are born this way, its who they are!

Indeed.

and if everyone is 'made from God' why did he make them that way?

I don't think God "makes" people gay, straight, lesbian, bi, or transgender; genetics, and a bunch of other stuff of which I know little about, does that.

to go through real hell in life, and then just get rejected! some of them even worship God.

My God-concept doesn't reject people. And there are GBLTQ people here as well as hetero.

also, if they are made from him doesnt that make him gay, lesbian, bisexual? -just saying

Short answer: no. My God-concept is beyond human concepts such as sexuality, race, creed, colour, hatred, jealousy, and more. These are anthromorphic traits that human beings put upon something vastly different from themselves to identify with it, and often, to attempt to justify their own prejudices. Some people's God-concepts are little more than their own vanities and egos projected externally. But not all. Thankfully.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

God didn't claim that, John Locke did.

 

[Falvlun]

So humanity is currently thwarting God's will?

Impressive. I didn't know we had it in ourselves to thwart the will of an omnipotent being.

And remember, it wasn't even all of humanity. It only was two humans who were able to overthrow all of his plans.

 

[no-body]

I don't remember anything like that with the biblical God, if anything it is implicit that everyone is not equal except in maybe that everyone has the chance to be saved.

I believe in such a God but saying everyone is equal is misleading. In the grander scheme of things yes we are all equal spiritually as we are all one and God. But as "egos" and "forms" in the world of course not we are all different.

 

[Sunstone]

It seems beneficial to society if everyone has equal rights and obligations.

 

[Blackdog22]

I don't remember anything like that with the biblical God, if anything it is implicit that everyone is not equal except in maybe that everyone has the chance to be saved.

I believe in such a God but saying everyone is equal is misleading. In the grander scheme of things yes we are all equal spiritually as we are all one and God. But as "egos" and "forms" in the world of course not we are all different.

Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.



I think this verse, amongst others, gets to the point of what Christians mean when they say, "everyone is equal." Of course some people are fat, small, dumb, smart etc. That much is given, but according to this verse (seemingly) all people are equal through Jesus.

I think then the question the OP raises needs to be restated. If we are all equal why are gays singled out?

 

[Orias]

God claims 'everyone is equal' but yet people who are gay, lesbian, bisexual is suddenly NOT equal. suddenly they are different and should go to hell. these people are born this way, its who they are! and if everyone is 'made from God' why did he make them that way? to go through real hell in life, and then just get rejected! some of them even worship God. also, if they are made from him doesnt that make him gay, lesbian, bisexual? -just saying

A "Satan Believer" eh?

No, not everyone is equal, but everyone is same.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Am I the only one who sees any hypocrisy here?

The rich say let the working class eat cake.

The working class wants the rich to pay for health care and education of others.

These socialists attitudes on the surface seem reasonable until we realise, to many people around the world, our least advantaged members of society are rich by their standards.

We flush our toilets with clean water while they have none.

Should we not give everyone on the planet clean water first and foremost or should they just eat cake as well?

Let me answer your question with a question.

If a tradesman wants to support a charity as much as he can, which is the better strategy:

- sell off all his tools and give the money as a one-shot deal, or
- keep his tools, keep working, and give what he can spare to the charity continually over the rest of his working life?

 

[Reverend Rick]

Let me answer your question with a question.

If a tradesman wants to support a charity as much as he can, which is the better strategy:

- sell off all his tools and give the money as a one-shot deal, or
- keep his tools, keep working, and give what he can spare to the charity continually over the rest of his working life?

Which solution saves the most lives?

Can you not see that people are dieing every day?

Tradesmen started out with no tools, they where not born with them. Tools can be replaced.

This was my point and you demonstrated it well, (I'm trying to tie this back to the previous discussion of equal worth). The people who die waiting for water to drink are expendable right? So they do not have equal worth to us? How did you come to this life or death decision?

You have made my point well, we are not equal nor do we have equal worth.

 

[Reverend Rick]

It seems beneficial to society if everyone has equal rights and obligations.

We agree. Now if we can get EVERYONE rowing the boat.......

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Which solution saves the most lives?

Can you not see that people are dieing every day?

Tradesmen started out with no tools, they where not born with them. Tools can be replaced.

This was my point and you demonstrated it well, (I'm trying to tie this back to the previous discussion of equal worth). The people who die waiting for water to drink are expendable right? So they do not have equal worth to us? How did you come to this life or death decision?

You have made my point well, we are not equal nor do we have equal worth.

I didn't make your point; you missed mine.

The worth of the person getting the health care is irrelevant here. If giving a person health care means enabling him to help 10 or 100 people in need in the future, then spending the money for that health care can be justified, even if the opportunity cost of that decision is that you pass up a chance to save someone else in need.

All life is valued equally in this decision: the good of the many outweighs the good of the one, and health care for one can create good for many (in terms of greater earning power).

 

[ChristineES]

Do we mean equal in the eyes of God or equal in society? No one is equal in society. Some people are beautiful while others are only beautiful to their loved ones. Some people are smarter at reading while others are smarter at Mathematics and Arithmetic. Some people design buildings while others build them. Some people are good cooks while others burn boiling water (figure of speech). Some people can eat whatever they want and never gain an ounce while others eat little but gain weight faster (in this thin obsessed society, that is something) We born here in the USA usually have a good living standard compared to those in so-called "Third World" nations- even if we are poor.

Humans are not perfect, so we will judge by our own standards.

 

[ChristineES]

The reality is that the rich doesn't fund that stuff- it is the middle class and always has been.

 

[Reverend Rick]

I didn't make your point; you missed mine.

The worth of the person getting the health care is irrelevant here. If giving a person health care means enabling him to help 10 or 100 people in need in the future, then spending the money for that health care can be justified, even if the opportunity cost of that decision is that you pass up a chance to save someone else in need.

All life is valued equally in this decision: the good of the many outweighs the good of the one, and health care for one can create good for many (in terms of greater earning power).

Using your logic, one could justify just about anything.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Using your logic, one could justify just about anything.

All I'm saying is that we should consider all of the implications of the possible outcomes when making decisions.

Take an example from my own life: I do a fair bit of work with an organization that tries to get kids excited about science and math through robotics. Now... do I think a Canadian or American kid needs a robot more than a kid in some third-world country needs food? No, of course not.

... but what I realize is that programs like this are, IMO, the best way to encourage the next Norman Borlaug to get into a field where he or she can save a billion third-world lives like Borlaug did. There's no way that I'd be able to have that kind of impact by volunteering for some cause that helps people in the third world directly.

 

[Reverend Rick]

There's no way that I'd be able to have that kind of impact by volunteering for some cause that helps people in the third world directly.

Actually there is Jeff. I don't want to take away from the good work you do with children, but I would like to share a project that I am passionate about.

1.60 can save the life of a mother and her child and any younger brothers and sisters that come along. I have never plugged anything during my 7+ years here, but if a person skips lunch once a month and donates that money, (chump change) they could save 100 lives a year.

I am President of Berea Kiwanis and a local spokes person for the Eliminate Project.

EVERY PENNY DONATED GOES DIRECTLY TO THE CHILDREN.

We will wipe this off the planet. It is terrible, a child is born with extreme pain and cannot stand to be touched or see daylight. The babies must be left in a dark room with no human touch until it dies.

The Eliminate Project - Kiwanis Eliminating Maternal/Neonatal Tetanus

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Actually there is Jeff. I don't want to take away from the good work you do with children, but I would like to share a project that I am passionate about.

1.60 can save the life of a mother and her child and any younger brothers and sisters that come along. I have never plugged anything during my 7+ years here, but if a person skips lunch once a month and donates that money, (chump change) they could save 100 lives a year.

I am President of Berea Kiwanis and a local spokes person for the Eliminate Project.

EVERY PENNY DONATED GOES DIRECTLY TO THE CHILDREN.

We will wipe this off the planet. It is terrible, a child is born with extreme pain and cannot stand to be touched or see daylight. The babies must be left in a dark room with no human touch until it dies.

The Eliminate Project - Kiwanis Eliminating Maternal/Neonatal Tetanus

Let me step back a bit: I'm not saying that we should ignore people in need now. The campaign you're talking about sounds like ones I support myself: issues where the solution has already been figured out, it's cheap to implement, and all we have to do is do it. I'm not familiar with the tetanus issue (in the past, the issue I've focused on most is access to clean water), but it sounds like a good thing.

But my point in all this is that we also shouldn't ignore the future. For instance, take your campaign: there was a point when the vaccines that your campaign administers to kids hadn't been developed yet. Back then (just as today), there were lots of other problems that all sorts of people were dying of... but someone (or likely many people) decided to say "yes, all those are important, immediate issues, but we're going to devote ourselves to this project instead out of the hope for future benefit."

As another example, one of my friends works for Engineers Without Borders. She used to be in Ghana directly working on projects in the field that provided direct benefit for people in need; now she leads a project called Admitting Failure that encourages NGOs to share their experiences with each other so that they can learn from each other's mistakes. It doesn't directly help anyone in need at all, but I still think it's a very worthwhile project.