Evidence for a god existing or not existing

[firedragon]

That's funny (and, yet again, substance-free) given that you don't actually seem to get the difference between area and volume. Ho hum, I guess after the straw man fiasco it was always inevitable that you'd just run away.

Have a good day yourself.

You too.

 

[firedragon]

Best of luck with that but it was one of my earliest attempts to get through...

Cheers.

 

[rational experiences]

You invented the rule because you stated the rule.

I say I know because I know, but that is not something I can prove to anyone else. There are many different ways of knowing and not all of them are based upon facts that can be proven.

Definition of know

1a(1): to perceive directly : have direct cognition of (2): to have understanding of importance of knowing oneself (3): to recognize the nature of : discern

b(1): to recognize as being the same as something previously known(2): to be acquainted or familiar with (3): to have experience of

2a: to be aware of the truth or factuality of : be convinced or certain of

b: to have a practical understanding of knows how to write

Definition of KNOW

No, not unless they are trying to prove what they know is true in a debate or in a court of law.

You can claim to know there is no God and many atheists do, and I won’t tell them they have the burden of proof. Here is what I will say and have said on numerous occasions:

There are only three logical possibilities and they are mutually exclusive:

1. God exists and sends Messengers to communicate with humans (theist), or
2. God exists but does not communicate with humans (deist), or
3. God does not exist (atheist)

You can pick from the three and I won’t tell you that you have to support your choice UNLESS we are in a debate about whether God exists or not. Then I might ask you why you made that choice, but I would never ask you to prove that your choice is correct because none of the three choices can be proven correct.

To know.

God was not a male in science.

A volcano was erected out of O science theme planet. Stone. God.

Not man.
Not male.

So everyone must ask why did the man human inventor prostelise false science?

What the Bible statement warned you about

False science preaching.

Yet you ignore what spirituality warned you about.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Yes you are correct in that I am addicted, addicted to truth. As to fantasies well I will admit to having a vision and goal and plan to help humanity overcome its prejudices of race, religion and nationality and to eventually work together as one family for peace.

However, you might judge such things as peace, unity, love and universal brotherhood as sicknesses of the mind, so better I say no more of these things to you.

Why conflate those worthy goals with a false belief?

 

[Subduction Zone]

I had the impression you liked to show me how the image of one’s god may look for someone who has to believe that his Creator is a powerful selfish ruler looking for slaves to worship, praise and obey him; otherwise... you know!
This reminds me the various stories that parents may tell their little kids to convince them it is better for them to obey their parent’s rules! Many such stories were also made for adults in every formal religion to cleverly impose on its common believers certain rules to obey and certain rituals to observe, said inspired by their powerful god.

But the FSM is nothing like the tribal god that you worship. Why did you assume that he was evil like the Jesus God?

 

[rational experiences]

The problem we face is word usage.

Spirit eternal never spoke it communed.

How it expressed relationships was sharing mutual awareness communicated.

We left that state only after God the destruction had evolved.

As our parents human came out of the eternal. Inherited change of body.

Using no name was our pre bahuallah teaching. About spirit terms.

As warned.

Spirit never named natural presence. Science the occult had.

Every land our family was separated living as united by UFO radiation fallout. Warning stories. Loved worthy unique and wanting unity our strive.

No longer do we want abuse or loss or non acceptances.

Our family is human and spiritual.

We have endured enough evidence that spirit was our inheritance changed.

How much suffering does humanity say is enough...stop?

 

[Trailblazer]

Why conflate those worthy goals with a false belief?

Why assume it's false?

 

[F1fan]

Not at all. I have countless times on this forum openly challenged one and all to prove Baha’u’llah’s teachings for this age are untrue or unneeded but none thus far have taken up this challenge. God has revealed the solution for today’s problems through Baha’u’llah.

What about non-religious people who come up with good solutions? Explain their ability to accomplish this independently of your kind of belief.

Do we not need for prejudices of race, religion and nationality to cease and all men be as brothers? Do we not need to all work together for such things as the environment and the betterment of mankind? So far, none have been courageous enough to challenge Baha’u’llah as He stands for a peaceful, harmonious world. And where do His teachings come from? God of course. He says they come not from Him but God.

All good things. But how do you explain non-theists who can do this?

So the God people are saying doesn’t exist tells us, through Baha’u’llah, that in this day, our only solution for peace is to accept the oneness and equality of all people, regardless of race, religion and nationality. Do you have a more universal or more world encompassing solution? Then put it on the table and let’s discuss it but do not run away from the fact that these ideas came from God not man.

Or this is all something you think you need permission outside yourself to agree with? Atheists are fine acknowledging they have independent moral ability.

 

[Trailblazer]

What about non-religious people who come up with good solutions? Explain their ability to accomplish this independently of your kind of belief.

All good things. But how do you explain non-theists who can do this?

Or this is all something you think you need permission outside yourself to agree with? Atheists are fine acknowledging they have independent moral ability.

There are reasons to believe in God, but....
It is not necessary to believe in God to be moral. Many atheists have more moral principles than believers.
It is not necessary to believe in God or become a Baha'i to help build the new world order that we envision.

"So do Baha’is want everyone to call themselves a Baha’i? It doesn’t matter to us at all. What matters is that we all strive to embody these spiritual principles, recognize the commonalities in our respective Faith traditions, and use those commonalities as the foundation for a world civilization built on respect, collaboration, and unity"

Toward a New World Order?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Why assume it's false?

I made no assumption. Go back to his post on page fourteen. It is filled with false claims. Most of them personal attacks against those that do not share his beliefs.

 

[F1fan]

There are reasons to believe in God, but....
It is not necessary to believe in God to be moral. Many atheists have more moral principles than believers.
It is not necessary to believe in God or become a Baha'i to help build the new world order that we envision.

"So do Baha’is want everyone to call themselves a Baha’i? It doesn’t matter to us at all. What matters is that we all strive to embody these spiritual principles, recognize the commonalities in our respective Faith traditions, and use those commonalities as the foundation for a world civilization built on respect, collaboration, and unity"

Toward a New World Order?

What spiritual principles?

To my mind spirituality includes anyone who finds balance in their lives which isn't a religious thing at all, but some religious people think this is achieved through religious practice or belief. Religious practices can bring well-being and a peaceful mind, but I think it's bound to be incomplete if the believer has to assume certain rational concepts are true.

 

[loverofhumanity]

What about non-religious people who come up with good solutions? Explain their ability to accomplish this independently of your kind of belief.


All good things. But how do you explain non-theists who can do this?


Or this is all something you think you need permission outside yourself to agree with? Atheists are fine acknowledging they have independent moral ability.

All good whether directly or indirectly originated I believe, comes from God whether acknowledged or not.

The same goes for virtues. Just because a man may deny the existence of the sun doesn’t mean his very life does not depend upon it. Everyone is dependent on the sun whether blind or with eyesight, so too all are dependent on God no matter they call themselves religious or atheist.

This is my belief.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Why conflate those worthy goals with a false belief?

Thank you for acknowledging that the goals are worthy.

 

[Trailblazer]

What spiritual principles?

To my mind spirituality includes anyone who finds balance in their lives which isn't a religious thing at all, but some religious people think this is achieved through religious practice or belief. Religious practices can bring well-being and a peaceful mind, but I think it's bound to be incomplete if the believer has to assume certain rational concepts are true.

That blog explains what is meant by spiritual principles:

"While social teachings may differ between religious traditions, at the foundation of all religions is a common set of spiritual principles: be kind, be just, be truthful, be generous, be compassionate, and the like. To Baha’is, what matters not is the religion by which one identifies himself or herself, but the degree to which one reflects these spiritual principles."

Toward a New World Order?

I see no reason why someone has to have a religion or engage in certain practices in order to embody these qualities and behaviors and I am sure there are many examples of nonbelievers who would demonstrate these qualities.

 

[F1fan]

All good whether directly or indirectly originated from God whether acknowledged or not.

That is only true if we knew a God existed, which we don't. Thus far there's not even sufficient evidence that it's plausible.

[qquote]The same goes for virtues. Just because a man may deny the existence of the sun doesn’t mean his very life does not depend upon it.[/quote]
What sane person would deny the existence of something we can observe existing? Our planet can't even function without the sun. There's a direct and causal connection here that is all factual. You need to demonstrate an actual God exists and all the things you attribute to it actually causes virtue and goodness.

Everyone is dependent on the sun whether blind or with eyesight, so too all are dependent on God no matter they call themselves religious or atheist.

As I explained this is completely untrue. I'm not sure why you think you can get away with such a blatant false claim as this.

 

[Trailblazer]

That is only true if we knew a God existed, which we don't. Thus far there's not even sufficient evidence that it's plausible.

If God existed, what would qualify as evidence for you? I mean what do you imagine the evidence would look like?

 

[F1fan]

That blog explains what is meant by spiritual principles:

"While social teachings may differ between religious traditions, at the foundation of all religions is a common set of spiritual principles: be kind, be just, be truthful, be generous, be compassionate, and the like. To Baha’is, what matters not is the religion by which one identifies himself or herself, but the degree to which one reflects these spiritual principles."

Toward a New World Order?

I see no reason why someone has to have a religion or engage in certain practices in order to embody these qualities and behaviors and I am sure there are many examples of nonbelievers who would demonstrate these qualities.

If God existed, what would qualify as evidence for you? I mean what do you imagine the evidence would look like?

Well it could show up looking like Michaelangelo's depiction on the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel. The typical Christians notion of God is all powerful and could easily take that form. And then God could heal all children dying from genetic defects to prove it's loving. I'd be impressed. I imagine Christians would be too. Alas, all they have is faith, which is unreliable and prone to error.

 

[loverofhumanity]

That is only true if we knew a God existed, which we don't. Thus far there's not even sufficient evidence that it's plausible.

[qquote]The same goes for virtues. Just because a man may deny the existence of the sun doesn’t mean his very life does not depend upon it.

What sane person would deny the existence of something we can observe existing? Our planet can't even function without the sun. There's a direct and causal connection here that is all factual. You need to demonstrate an actual God exists and all the things you attribute to it actually causes virtue and goodness.


As I explained this is completely untrue. I'm not sure why you think you can get away with such a blatant false claim as this.[/QUOTE]

The problem is that man acknowledges his physical entity but we are not our body. Where is the self? Can you locate it? Yet it exists. Why do we know the self exists? It is not tangible like the sun however we all testify that we, ourselves exist without any tangible proof! Same with God. He is not tangible but a reality beyond physical existence and we know that realities beyond physical tangibles do exist. We know of the existence of God by His Representatives Who appear on earth. All civilisations have, as their foundation some Holy Figure such as Buddha in SE Asian nations and China, Christ in European and western countries, Krishna in India, Moses in Israel and Muhammad in the Middle Eastern nations.

These Figures have shaped the course of Their respective civilisations and Their teachings, concepts and ideas encompassed the world and science. For example, mindfulness which is a main teaching of Buddhism is being taught in universities all over the world. There is not one nation, city or town which has not been shaped by the teachings of These Great Spiritual Beings. To deny this fact is to deny history.

Now, in this age, if you closely examine the teachings of Baha’u’llah, you will find that the world is embracing His concepts and ideas although unaware of their Source. There is not one spot on earth that is not influenced by His teachings.

 

[Subduction Zone]

All good whether directly or indirectly originated I believe, comes from God whether acknowledged or not.

The same goes for virtues. Just because a man may deny the existence of the sun doesn’t mean his very life does not depend upon it. Everyone is dependent on the sun whether blind or with eyesight, so too all are dependent on God no matter they call themselves religious or atheist.

This is my belief.

Beliefs are not worth much if one cannot support them.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Thank you for acknowledging that the goals are worthy.

There are plenty of worthy goals. One does not need an invisible friend to have them.